- - The original note follows - -
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
Path:
psuvm!news.cac.psu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!
umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!john
From: john@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Truth about architecture schools (was Top rated schools...
Message-ID: <johnCE90np.LKw@xxxxxxxxxx>
Organization: House of Usher
References: <[email protected]> <johnCDvK1s.DDF@xxxxxxxxxx>
<1993Sep29.194916.4711@ucbeh>
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1993 02:38:12 GMT
Lines: 143
READERS - Sorry to blow bandwidth, but I just have to respond...
In <1993Sep29.194916.4711@ucbeh> turnerbl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
>In <johnCDvK1s.DDF@xxxxxxxxxx>, john@xxxxxxxxxx writes:
>> In <[email protected]> Lester J Manzano
<lm37+@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
>> [ Stuff nixed...]
>>>architecture programs. If you get a copy of any ranking of architecture
>>>schools, you'll find that University of California at Berkeley,
>>>Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Carnegie Mellon, and Princeton
>>>rank among the top four in that order-- Carnegie Mellon being third.
>>
>> Where, may I ask, can you get any type of valid list ranking
>> architecture schools?? The above, if I read it correctly, is
>> simply bullshit. You can obtain a list of accreditation levels
>> (number of years granted), programs offered, emphasis, make
>> visits, talk to people, etc...BUT, Lester's statement above
>> just doesn't make sense.
I STILL stand by my comment immediately above.
>Progressive Architecture, readers poll, FEB. 1989
Ooooo! Now THAT'S substantial. (NOT!)
Actually, I hate to break the news to ya, but magazines are
sorta 'iffy' as evidence.
[stuff nixed...]
>"also, a majority of readers responding to the poll (68 percent) agreed that
>co-op or work study programs better prapare students for practice than
>conventional degree programs."
>
>You will note that U Cincinnati is the ONLY school on this list with required
>co-op. Perhaps that's why we have 90% placement of our graduates in
>professional firms 3 months after graduation.
I somewhat agree with you on the above, and I commend you & U Cinc. on
your unique program. This really is a compliment.
[stuff nixed...]
>> nice about this, but I HATE disinformation.
>> A) One can still become licensed in California (approx.
>> 6th largest economy in the world) without ANY architectural
>> degree.
>
>I don't know who you are, or where you practice if you do, but you MUST be
>licensed to practice architecture in all 50 US states, Canada, Puerto Rico and
>most of Europe. There was a time when you could work for an architect and then
>get "grandfathered" in to the practice, but that option has expired in almost
>all states.
Bullshit. I am an architect in San Francisco working with the fifth
largest (give-or-take) (ranked by disclosed billings from last year)
architecture firm in the country. I passed the Architectural
Registration Exam (A.R.E.) a year-and-a-half ago (first try). I only
have a four year degree (Bach. of Science in Architecture). I am not
trying to brag (not enough to brag on), just explaining a little more
about who I am. Your wording above is slightly ambiguous; however,
point "(A)" above is true (I DIDN'T say you did not have to be licensed
to practice as an _architect_) (and unless the laws have changed within
the last year). Now, if you don't believe this, call the California
Board of Arch. Examiners at 916 445-3393.
>> is very common.
>
>MOST of the architecture degrees granted in this country are 5 year programs.
>4 + 2 are the minority by FAR.
I DIDN'T say MAJORITY. I said _common_.
>> C) Sometimes, your internship must be longer if you have
>> a B.Arch. instead of an M.Arch.
>
>Oh, now this is crap. The standard apprenticeship is 3 years with EITHER
>professional degree (M.Arch or B.Arch) The only way you can shorten this
>period, that I am aware of, is through co-op (more on this later)
Ha! You are correct. I was wrong on point "(C)" -'course, I
can get a little slack 'cause I at least said "Sometimes" ;)
>> D) The laws vary by state for what it takes to get licensed,
>> including education, exams, and in many cases Intern
>> Development Program bureaucratic nonsense.
>
>No, they don't. Right now you MUST have the professional degree and you MUST
>have the apprenticeship. IDP is in a constant state of flux precisely because
>the ONLY standardization is the examination.
Refer to my point above regarding California (unless the law here
has changed within the last year - which is not altogether impossible).
>> E) You don't necessarily need to get licensed to work in
>> this field (only a couple of the people in a large
>> firm stamp the documents).
>
>You can't, BY LAW, represent yourself to the public or undertake a commission
>representing yourself as a professional architect without the license
Maybe you're not directing that at me 'cause I DID NOT say
PROFESSIONAL ARCHITECT!! Read it! "work in this field" -
I've seen people work for YEARS in firms with no license.
It's up to them. In our office, one of the partners
generally stamps the documents -NOT the remaining
150 people.
>> Guide to Architecture Schools in North America
>> ed. Richard McCommons 1989
>> Association of Collegiate Schools of Architecture Press
>> ISBN 0-935437-31-2
>> NA2105.G85 1989
Still a good reference, and "You're welcome" to those who have
thanked me via e-mail.
[Stuff on professional programs nixed...]
>Architect? A Candid Guide to the Profession.
>Roger K Lewis, MIT Press
This sounds good.
>If you want information from a PROFESSIONAL, you may feel free to E-Mail me.
>I'll try not to push my school too hard :-)
>Brian Turner
>Admissions Director
>College of Design, Architecture, Art, & Planning
>University of Cincinnati
>turnerbl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I'm not _really_ trying to flame-bait here, but I am hoping that
your "PROFESSIONAL" career has included more active practice
than some university-employed architects I know. It does take
all kinds, though.
>"Co-op? We INVENTED it"
I like the idea. At my university, I felt the engineers had
an advantage with their co-op programs. Of course, I did
work for an architect part of the time I was a full-time
student (and working for the university).
--
Deathrace 2000
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
Path:
psuvm!news.cac.psu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!
umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!john
From: john@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Truth about architecture schools (was Top rated schools...
Message-ID: <johnCE90np.LKw@xxxxxxxxxx>
Organization: House of Usher
References: <[email protected]> <johnCDvK1s.DDF@xxxxxxxxxx>
<1993Sep29.194916.4711@ucbeh>
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1993 02:38:12 GMT
Lines: 143
READERS - Sorry to blow bandwidth, but I just have to respond...
In <1993Sep29.194916.4711@ucbeh> turnerbl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
>In <johnCDvK1s.DDF@xxxxxxxxxx>, john@xxxxxxxxxx writes:
>> In <[email protected]> Lester J Manzano
<lm37+@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
>> [ Stuff nixed...]
>>>architecture programs. If you get a copy of any ranking of architecture
>>>schools, you'll find that University of California at Berkeley,
>>>Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Carnegie Mellon, and Princeton
>>>rank among the top four in that order-- Carnegie Mellon being third.
>>
>> Where, may I ask, can you get any type of valid list ranking
>> architecture schools?? The above, if I read it correctly, is
>> simply bullshit. You can obtain a list of accreditation levels
>> (number of years granted), programs offered, emphasis, make
>> visits, talk to people, etc...BUT, Lester's statement above
>> just doesn't make sense.
I STILL stand by my comment immediately above.
>Progressive Architecture, readers poll, FEB. 1989
Ooooo! Now THAT'S substantial. (NOT!)
Actually, I hate to break the news to ya, but magazines are
sorta 'iffy' as evidence.
[stuff nixed...]
>"also, a majority of readers responding to the poll (68 percent) agreed that
>co-op or work study programs better prapare students for practice than
>conventional degree programs."
>
>You will note that U Cincinnati is the ONLY school on this list with required
>co-op. Perhaps that's why we have 90% placement of our graduates in
>professional firms 3 months after graduation.
I somewhat agree with you on the above, and I commend you & U Cinc. on
your unique program. This really is a compliment.
[stuff nixed...]
>> nice about this, but I HATE disinformation.
>> A) One can still become licensed in California (approx.
>> 6th largest economy in the world) without ANY architectural
>> degree.
>
>I don't know who you are, or where you practice if you do, but you MUST be
>licensed to practice architecture in all 50 US states, Canada, Puerto Rico and
>most of Europe. There was a time when you could work for an architect and then
>get "grandfathered" in to the practice, but that option has expired in almost
>all states.
Bullshit. I am an architect in San Francisco working with the fifth
largest (give-or-take) (ranked by disclosed billings from last year)
architecture firm in the country. I passed the Architectural
Registration Exam (A.R.E.) a year-and-a-half ago (first try). I only
have a four year degree (Bach. of Science in Architecture). I am not
trying to brag (not enough to brag on), just explaining a little more
about who I am. Your wording above is slightly ambiguous; however,
point "(A)" above is true (I DIDN'T say you did not have to be licensed
to practice as an _architect_) (and unless the laws have changed within
the last year). Now, if you don't believe this, call the California
Board of Arch. Examiners at 916 445-3393.
>> is very common.
>
>MOST of the architecture degrees granted in this country are 5 year programs.
>4 + 2 are the minority by FAR.
I DIDN'T say MAJORITY. I said _common_.
>> C) Sometimes, your internship must be longer if you have
>> a B.Arch. instead of an M.Arch.
>
>Oh, now this is crap. The standard apprenticeship is 3 years with EITHER
>professional degree (M.Arch or B.Arch) The only way you can shorten this
>period, that I am aware of, is through co-op (more on this later)
Ha! You are correct. I was wrong on point "(C)" -'course, I
can get a little slack 'cause I at least said "Sometimes" ;)
>> D) The laws vary by state for what it takes to get licensed,
>> including education, exams, and in many cases Intern
>> Development Program bureaucratic nonsense.
>
>No, they don't. Right now you MUST have the professional degree and you MUST
>have the apprenticeship. IDP is in a constant state of flux precisely because
>the ONLY standardization is the examination.
Refer to my point above regarding California (unless the law here
has changed within the last year - which is not altogether impossible).
>> E) You don't necessarily need to get licensed to work in
>> this field (only a couple of the people in a large
>> firm stamp the documents).
>
>You can't, BY LAW, represent yourself to the public or undertake a commission
>representing yourself as a professional architect without the license
Maybe you're not directing that at me 'cause I DID NOT say
PROFESSIONAL ARCHITECT!! Read it! "work in this field" -
I've seen people work for YEARS in firms with no license.
It's up to them. In our office, one of the partners
generally stamps the documents -NOT the remaining
150 people.
>> Guide to Architecture Schools in North America
>> ed. Richard McCommons 1989
>> Association of Collegiate Schools of Architecture Press
>> ISBN 0-935437-31-2
>> NA2105.G85 1989
Still a good reference, and "You're welcome" to those who have
thanked me via e-mail.
[Stuff on professional programs nixed...]
>Architect? A Candid Guide to the Profession.
>Roger K Lewis, MIT Press
This sounds good.
>If you want information from a PROFESSIONAL, you may feel free to E-Mail me.
>I'll try not to push my school too hard :-)
>Brian Turner
>Admissions Director
>College of Design, Architecture, Art, & Planning
>University of Cincinnati
>turnerbl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I'm not _really_ trying to flame-bait here, but I am hoping that
your "PROFESSIONAL" career has included more active practice
than some university-employed architects I know. It does take
all kinds, though.
>"Co-op? We INVENTED it"
I like the idea. At my university, I felt the engineers had
an advantage with their co-op programs. Of course, I did
work for an architect part of the time I was a full-time
student (and working for the university).
--
Deathrace 2000