sorry for the lag, it's been a busy week.
the challenge of communicating online - and you could probably apply this to anything else - is the scope of the exchange, both for the means of input and the display method. the comment about insulation shouldn't indicate that complete insulation or secrecy is necessary for anything to be traded - what i find is that a community has to strike a balance of public/private, standards/nonsense and even a group of focussed individuals can be undermined by their insecurities when the public is brought in to play or the method of response is too easy or too open-ended. my experience tells me that ideas are most clearly brought to the table when someone is under the impression that thy are speaking to a set group of individuals and aren't forced to readjust their tone. i find public broadcasts online to either be completely inoffensive and inconclusive or obviously over the top or offensive. people throw themselves at a completely unknown audience in ways that are more often than not completely useless. either 'i'm transmitting raw data' or 'i'm transmitting down a one way street'. the latter generates both black and white responses with usually no conclusion and the former can be informative, but doesn't foster challenging exchange either. and from the author's perspective what does it matter? there's no responsibility for a blogger towards a community, there's no reason to consider your audience, because at the outset that's entirely up to you (and who your friends are, i guess). i think this is also mainly true of public bbs, although it's not quite as severe. without some kind of layer between the entirety of the net and the conversation the author makes no progress and everyone levels off where they were before reading whatever was posted.
and how user friendly is the movable type interface? honestly, i've never used it, but from the stuff that i see produced with it i'm going to guess it's way too easy to use. after i send this email i can't re-edit it, and in order to pay attention to the list i have to deliberately check my email, reading through each one to keep track. it may sound irrelevant, but i think that the slower speed of the interface required to exchange like this actually helps the concentration that goes in to the responses. in a way i feel like it's indicative - that i actually _must_ think about what i'm saying (at least a little) because i'll have to own it later.
for a long while i was a member of a very small, fairly secret bbs. the environment was fairly unbelievable for a while, and quite a lot of good work came from it. as the work went up and got noticed more people were drawn towards our community. although i don't have the archives i'm sure it would be interesting to be able to give example of different posters attitudes when the member count rose above 1000. the board was shut down soon afterward due to general frustration, but no one could come up with a worthwhile way to filter the new users without putting in place some kind of imperative, or harsh decision-making process. the question of exposure doesn't seem to come up around here, and i think it's good that it doesn't.
insulation is limiting - but in order to start you have to limit your audience, and limit your tools at some point. i think this format strikes a good balance - but it also has a lot to do with a history around here that i'm wholly not a part of.
oh, and the second part that i left out -
the ethos of the internet has definitely changed. what's left to do and explore? i feel like millions of people went to work playing with it as a new toy and have since all decided that they have some entitlement to it and a clear understanding of the standards. the problem is that there really never were any that weren't at least partly in everyone's hands, and even now seem mainly a biproduct of expectation. in a way i feel like things have plateaued temporarily, which is fairly unfortunate, but it might be ok since there is plenty of cleaning up to do. in a way i feel like people moved so quickly to get online that they overlooked really robust ways of using it as a tool. ajax anyone? or is that too nerdy?
also sorry my display name changes. depends on where i'm checking email from, i should probably change that.
On Jun 23, 2005, at 9:07 PM, lauf-s wrote:
the challenge of communicating online - and you could probably apply this to anything else - is the scope of the exchange, both for the means of input and the display method. the comment about insulation shouldn't indicate that complete insulation or secrecy is necessary for anything to be traded - what i find is that a community has to strike a balance of public/private, standards/nonsense and even a group of focussed individuals can be undermined by their insecurities when the public is brought in to play or the method of response is too easy or too open-ended. my experience tells me that ideas are most clearly brought to the table when someone is under the impression that thy are speaking to a set group of individuals and aren't forced to readjust their tone. i find public broadcasts online to either be completely inoffensive and inconclusive or obviously over the top or offensive. people throw themselves at a completely unknown audience in ways that are more often than not completely useless. either 'i'm transmitting raw data' or 'i'm transmitting down a one way street'. the latter generates both black and white responses with usually no conclusion and the former can be informative, but doesn't foster challenging exchange either. and from the author's perspective what does it matter? there's no responsibility for a blogger towards a community, there's no reason to consider your audience, because at the outset that's entirely up to you (and who your friends are, i guess). i think this is also mainly true of public bbs, although it's not quite as severe. without some kind of layer between the entirety of the net and the conversation the author makes no progress and everyone levels off where they were before reading whatever was posted.
and how user friendly is the movable type interface? honestly, i've never used it, but from the stuff that i see produced with it i'm going to guess it's way too easy to use. after i send this email i can't re-edit it, and in order to pay attention to the list i have to deliberately check my email, reading through each one to keep track. it may sound irrelevant, but i think that the slower speed of the interface required to exchange like this actually helps the concentration that goes in to the responses. in a way i feel like it's indicative - that i actually _must_ think about what i'm saying (at least a little) because i'll have to own it later.
for a long while i was a member of a very small, fairly secret bbs. the environment was fairly unbelievable for a while, and quite a lot of good work came from it. as the work went up and got noticed more people were drawn towards our community. although i don't have the archives i'm sure it would be interesting to be able to give example of different posters attitudes when the member count rose above 1000. the board was shut down soon afterward due to general frustration, but no one could come up with a worthwhile way to filter the new users without putting in place some kind of imperative, or harsh decision-making process. the question of exposure doesn't seem to come up around here, and i think it's good that it doesn't.
insulation is limiting - but in order to start you have to limit your audience, and limit your tools at some point. i think this format strikes a good balance - but it also has a lot to do with a history around here that i'm wholly not a part of.
oh, and the second part that i left out -
the ethos of the internet has definitely changed. what's left to do and explore? i feel like millions of people went to work playing with it as a new toy and have since all decided that they have some entitlement to it and a clear understanding of the standards. the problem is that there really never were any that weren't at least partly in everyone's hands, and even now seem mainly a biproduct of expectation. in a way i feel like things have plateaued temporarily, which is fairly unfortunate, but it might be ok since there is plenty of cleaning up to do. in a way i feel like people moved so quickly to get online that they overlooked really robust ways of using it as a tool. ajax anyone? or is that too nerdy?
also sorry my display name changes. depends on where i'm checking email from, i should probably change that.
On Jun 23, 2005, at 9:07 PM, lauf-s wrote:
Thanks for the explanation, Brian. The managerial duties are definitely something I would be willing to do if you ever want to stop doing it yourself (and if no one else wants to do it).
Can you tell us how many subscribers design-l.v2 now has?
Is design-l like an EcoSphere?
Is design-l a potential ruling class with original content?
restassured, I'm curious about the "insulation" that you say quality exchange is based on.
(I don't really read any blogs either.)
I think the whole Internet ethos has changes/evolved. It's definitely very much there and more a part of everyday work lives, but the playful subversiveness seems gone (unfortunately replace by malicious subversiveness it seems).
Who knows?
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