---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: [in-enaction] Personal Rapid Transport (PRT)
From: "Arch" <hello_architect@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, November 19, 2004 10:47 pm
To: in-enaction@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
ankurbhatnagar@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. Ankur Bhatnagar, Ms. Gita Dewan Verma and list members,
With regard to the PRT Technology being discussed, i checked out the
websites of the company and referred the topic to a group of experts from
the Indian Railways, DMRC and others for their opinion. The following are
some of the responses that i got from them:
RESPONSE 1
Well about this PRT thing it is a hoax and nothing else. This
technology is not proven, very costly right now and has not been
implemented anywhere in the world. The one place where it has some
applicability is in America where people like personal transit rather than
mass transit. Though it is definitely going to be very expensive.
This system is presently not for India. I am definite. I work in
automobile industry and have been in lot of technical discussion
regarding this technology and it is still on the drawing board and lots of
things are being tested. We cannot have it at least for next 20 years.
RESPONSE 2
Beware of depending on private firms to come up with the required capital.
In various parts of the world they have had their fingers burnt when
costs rose too much and the private consortia made no money. This is a
task best left to national or regional government. Beware also of cranky
new technology which its supporters are always keen to say will be the
answer to each and everyone's problems. Personal Rapid Transit is suited
for small flows of traffic and is totally inappropriate for moving
thousands across city centres. Monorails, Japanese style, might just do -
for example the Tokyo to Haneda Airport route that can provide commuter as
well as airfield service adequately. The planned PRT for the Cardiff Bay
area has been dropped, and the monorail linking many casinos in Las vegas
had to closed days after it opened because bits were falling off the cars.
I guess it will reopen sometime but it has rather limited capacity.
Something like the Delhi Metro is what your great
cities needs - especially if each Metro orders the same cars, control and
signalling systems etc keeping down costs. Have a special design for
each system and each new line will cost a lot more.
RESPONSE 3
I don't see why you should be wary of a new technology. Automobiles and
trains had 200 years before they came to a state we see today. Both of
these systems have certain advantages and disadvantages over each other,
and so a combination of these two has been in use in cities around the
world. The problem is that with growing sizes of cities and their
populations, the advantages are no longer keeping up and disadvantages
are becoming more conspicuous.
Therefore, while it is alright to continue working on
further optimisations in autos and trains, the time
has really come to see if there is something new that
can be done. You are aware of the problems - ever
increasing travel times, investment requirements,
pollution, rising costs of oil, congestion,
inconveniences, frustrations,... The bottom line is
that with existing technologies, we are not moving
forward much on these fronts.
We all need to be open minded and optimistic. There
may have been problems with certain PRT
implementations, but that means that we need to go
into details and see how they can be resolved. I
believe a lot of problems have been addressed in
UniModal's model of PRT (see http://www.unimodal.com
and http://www.skytran.net).
As for capacity, UniModal provides a massive capacity
in the same cost of Metro. It is just not the numbers,
but the manner in which the capacity is provided is
also very useful. UniModal can cover a city much more
comprehensively than Metro in the same cost.
Another way of visualising capacity is to realise that
cars, autos, taxis, bikes, etc. are all examples of
personal transit, which today support an overwhelming
majority of transport needs of Delhi and other cities
in spite of bottlenecks like traffic lights, manual
vehicle control, lack of online route optimisation,
etc.
---------------------------------
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Subject: [in-enaction] Personal Rapid Transport (PRT)
From: "Arch" <hello_architect@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, November 19, 2004 10:47 pm
To: in-enaction@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
ankurbhatnagar@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. Ankur Bhatnagar, Ms. Gita Dewan Verma and list members,
With regard to the PRT Technology being discussed, i checked out the
websites of the company and referred the topic to a group of experts from
the Indian Railways, DMRC and others for their opinion. The following are
some of the responses that i got from them:
RESPONSE 1
Well about this PRT thing it is a hoax and nothing else. This
technology is not proven, very costly right now and has not been
implemented anywhere in the world. The one place where it has some
applicability is in America where people like personal transit rather than
mass transit. Though it is definitely going to be very expensive.
This system is presently not for India. I am definite. I work in
automobile industry and have been in lot of technical discussion
regarding this technology and it is still on the drawing board and lots of
things are being tested. We cannot have it at least for next 20 years.
RESPONSE 2
Beware of depending on private firms to come up with the required capital.
In various parts of the world they have had their fingers burnt when
costs rose too much and the private consortia made no money. This is a
task best left to national or regional government. Beware also of cranky
new technology which its supporters are always keen to say will be the
answer to each and everyone's problems. Personal Rapid Transit is suited
for small flows of traffic and is totally inappropriate for moving
thousands across city centres. Monorails, Japanese style, might just do -
for example the Tokyo to Haneda Airport route that can provide commuter as
well as airfield service adequately. The planned PRT for the Cardiff Bay
area has been dropped, and the monorail linking many casinos in Las vegas
had to closed days after it opened because bits were falling off the cars.
I guess it will reopen sometime but it has rather limited capacity.
Something like the Delhi Metro is what your great
cities needs - especially if each Metro orders the same cars, control and
signalling systems etc keeping down costs. Have a special design for
each system and each new line will cost a lot more.
RESPONSE 3
I don't see why you should be wary of a new technology. Automobiles and
trains had 200 years before they came to a state we see today. Both of
these systems have certain advantages and disadvantages over each other,
and so a combination of these two has been in use in cities around the
world. The problem is that with growing sizes of cities and their
populations, the advantages are no longer keeping up and disadvantages
are becoming more conspicuous.
Therefore, while it is alright to continue working on
further optimisations in autos and trains, the time
has really come to see if there is something new that
can be done. You are aware of the problems - ever
increasing travel times, investment requirements,
pollution, rising costs of oil, congestion,
inconveniences, frustrations,... The bottom line is
that with existing technologies, we are not moving
forward much on these fronts.
We all need to be open minded and optimistic. There
may have been problems with certain PRT
implementations, but that means that we need to go
into details and see how they can be resolved. I
believe a lot of problems have been addressed in
UniModal's model of PRT (see http://www.unimodal.com
and http://www.skytran.net).
As for capacity, UniModal provides a massive capacity
in the same cost of Metro. It is just not the numbers,
but the manner in which the capacity is provided is
also very useful. UniModal can cover a city much more
comprehensively than Metro in the same cost.
Another way of visualising capacity is to realise that
cars, autos, taxis, bikes, etc. are all examples of
personal transit, which today support an overwhelming
majority of transport needs of Delhi and other cities
in spite of bottlenecks like traffic lights, manual
vehicle control, lack of online route optimisation,
etc.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! ? Get yours free!
_______________________________________________
in-enaction mailing list
in-enaction@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://mail.architexturez.net/mailman/listinfo/in-enaction
<DIV>Dear Mr. Ankur Bhatnagar, Ms. Gita Dewan Verma and list members,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With regard to the PRT Technology being discussed, i checked out the websites of the company and referred the topic to a group of experts from the Indian Railways, DMRC and others for their opinion. The following are some of the responses that i got from them:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <H1 style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt"><TT><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><U><FONT size=2>RESPONSE 1<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></FONT></U></SPAN></TT></H1> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt"><TT><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Well about this PRT thing it is a hoax and nothing else. This</SPAN></TT><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><BR><TT>technology is not proven, very costly right now and has not been</TT><BR><TT>implemented anywhere in the world. The one place where it has some </TT><TT>applicability is in America where people like personal transit rather </TT><TT>than mass transit. Though it is definitely going to be very expensive.</TT><BR><BR><TT>This system is presently not for India. I am definite. I work in</TT><BR><TT>automobile industry and have been in lot of technical discussion</TT><BR><TT>regarding this technology and it is still on the drawing board and </TT><TT>lots of things are being tested. We cannot have it at least for next 20 </TT><TT>years.<o:p></o:p></TT></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt"><TT><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></TT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt"><TT><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></TT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt"><TT><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></TT></P> <H1 style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt"><TT><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><U><FONT size=2>RESPONSE 2<o:p></o:p></FONT></U></SPAN></TT></H1> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt"><TT><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Beware of depending on private firms to come up with the required capital. In various parts of the world they have had their fingers burnt when costs rose too much and the private consortia made no money. This is a task best left to national or regional government. Beware also of cranky new technology which its supporters are always keen to say will be the answer to each and everyone's problems. Personal Rapid Transit is suited for small flows of traffic and is totally inappropriate for moving thousands across city centres. Monorails, Japanese style, might just do - for example the Tokyo to Haneda Airport route that can provide commuter as well as airfield service adequately. The planned PRT for the Cardiff Bay area has been dropped, and the monorail linking many casinos in Las vegas had to closed days after it opened because bits were falling off the cars. I guess it will reopen sometime but it has rather limited capacity. Something like the Delhi Metro is what your great cities needs - especially if each Metro orders the same cars, control and signalling systems etc keeping down costs. Have a special design for each system and each new line will cost a lot more.</SPAN></TT><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <H1 style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt"><U><FONT size=2><TT><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">RESPONSE 3</SPAN></TT><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></U></H1> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt"><TT><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">I don't see why you should be wary of a new </SPAN></TT><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><TT>technology. Automobiles and trains had 200 years </TT><TT>before they came to a state we see today. Both of </TT><TT>these systems have certain advantages and</TT><BR><TT>disadvantages over each other, and so a combination of </TT><TT>these two has been in use in cities around the world. </TT><TT>The problem is that with growing sizes of cities and </TT><TT>their populations, the advantages are no longer </TT><TT>keeping up and disadvantages are becoming more </TT><TT>conspicuous.</TT><BR><BR><TT>Therefore, while it is alright to continue working on</TT><BR><TT>further optimisations in autos and trains, the time</TT><BR><TT>has really come to see if there is something new that</TT><BR><TT>can be done. You are aware of the problems - ever</TT><BR><TT>increasing travel times, investment requirements,</TT><BR><TT>pollution, rising costs of oil, congestion,</TT><BR><TT>inconveniences, frustrations,... The bottom line is</TT><BR><TT>that with existing technologies, we are not moving</TT><BR><TT>forward much on these fronts.</TT><BR><BR><TT>We all need to be open minded and optimistic. There</TT><BR><TT>may have been problems with certain PRT</TT><BR><TT>implementations, but that means that we need to go</TT><BR><TT>into details and see how they can be resolved. I</TT><BR><TT>believe a lot of problems have been addressed in</TT><BR><TT>UniModal's model of PRT (see <A href="http://www.unimodal.com/"; target=_blank><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT color=#003399>http://www.unimodal.com</FONT></SPAN></A></TT><BR><TT>and <A href="http://www.skytran.net)./" target=_blank><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT color=#003399>http://www.skytran.net).</FONT></SPAN></A></TT><BR><BR><TT>As for capacity, UniModal provides a massive capacity</TT><BR><TT>in the same cost of Metro. It is just not the numbers,</TT><BR><TT>but the manner in which the capacity is provided is</TT><BR><TT>also very useful. UniModal can cover a city much more</TT><BR><TT>comprehensively than Metro in the same cost.</TT><BR><BR><TT>Another way of visualising capacity is to realise that</TT><BR><TT>cars, autos, taxis, bikes, etc. are all examples of</TT><BR><TT>personal transit, which today support an overwhelming</TT><BR><TT>majority of transport needs of Delhi and other cities</TT><BR><TT>in spite of bottlenecks like traffic lights, manual</TT><BR><TT>vehicle control, lack of online route optimisation,</TT><BR><TT>etc.<o:p></o:p></TT></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt"><TT><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"> </SPAN></TT></P></DIV><p> <hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br> The <a href="http://my.yahoo.com";>all-new My Yahoo!</a> ? Get yours free!