. . . signoff design-l command should be sent to listserv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.
. .NOT THE LIST. . .
Automatic digest processor wrote:
>
> Subject: DESIGN-L Digest - 19 Apr 1999 to 20 Apr 1999 (#1999-25)
> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 00:00:48 -0400
> From: Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Reply-To: "Basic and applied design (Art and Architecture)"
<DESIGN-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: Recipients of DESIGN-L digests <DESIGN-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> There are 7 messages totalling 267 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. test (poem?) by whomevers (2)
> 2. Unsubscribe
> 3. nominations (?) (4)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: test (poem?) by whomevers
> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:12:37 -0400
> From: lauf-s <lauf-s@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> >i know, i was just economically utilizing some poetic emphasis. sl
>
> sorry, i guess i don't understand. bc
>
> brian, it's simple. you are interested in "seeing" and recognizing the
> invisiblity and (modern) transparancy of our architecture/environment today.
> all your points are poignant and all worth further consideration. my point,
> however, deals specifically with architecture's first principles, i.e.,
> duality in extreme and its unrelenting distinction between inside and
> outside. i cite the great pyramid as a prime example of architecture as
> duality in extreme, and you (correctly) cite the international space station
> as also an example of extreme architecture. just be sure that you likewise
> acknowledge that the international space station is also an example of
> architecture's unrelenting distinction between inside and outside (and in
> that sense, even a space suit is exteme architecture). sl
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Unsubscribe
> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:04:58 +0800
> From: "J.Cruel" <sambo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> unsubscribe<sambo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: nominations (?)
> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:39:28 -0700
> From: brian carroll <human@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> in the back of my mind, having survived Operation Urban Warrior
> in Alameda, a mock scenario of urban-combat, likely the way wars
> will be waged in the present-future... has been the thought of the
> nuclear arsenal.. an architectural what-if..
>
> what if a nuclear weapon was aimed at the downtown center of any
> large (million) metropolitan area... say, a Inter-Continental
> Ballistic Missile (ICBM) with a nuclear warhead crashing down,
> ground zero in Manhattan, or San Francisco.
>
> would skyscrapers fall, toppling ontop of one another like
> dominos? would foundations melt? what if..?
>
> has there been any research into the effects of nuclear weaponry
> and architecture to date- or has the measely fallout shelter been
> a best guess at nuclear defense... is there no defense to be had?
>
> there is a website from the American Experience which maps the
> effect of a nuclear blast on your zipcode... at:
>
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/amex/bomb/sfeature/blastmap.html
>
> my nomination for the most important building of the 20th century:
>
> a top-secret US Government fallout shelter for Senators and
> Congressional members and their families. see the facility via
> QTVR movies. read the interview about the construction of the
> facility and its purpose. and view the amazingly american
> interior decorating of a black-budge building....
>
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/amex/bomb/sfeature/
>
> see the BLAST MAPPER | BUNKER | BLAST VIDEOS | PANIC QUIZ | CHARTS...
>
> bc
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: nominations (?)
> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:52:28 -0400
> From: Mark Darrall <mdarrall@xxxxxxxxxx>
>
> At 05:39 PM 4/20/99 -0700, Brian wrote:
> > in the back of my mind, having survived Operation Urban Warrior
> > in Alameda, a mock scenario of urban-combat, likely the way wars
> > will be waged in the present-future... has been the thought of the
> > nuclear arsenal.. an architectural what-if..
>
> Present indeed! If we send ground-pounders to Yugoslavia, a good portion of
> the fighting will be conducted in urban settings. Just remember Mogadishu,
> and you'll get an idea of what's in store for our young men and women.
> Hopefully, the Urban Warrior exercises pay off.
>
> Better, of course, that they never be needed.
>
> > would skyscrapers fall, toppling ontop of one another like
> > dominos? would foundations melt? what if..?
>
> I would think that the lighter elements---curtain wall, finishes, would be
> vaporized. The light steel frames would melt, with the floor slabs falling
> to the basements. Perhaps the only thing left standing would be CIP concrete
> cores, which might serve as a refuge (talk about cold comfort!). Too bad if
> your building uses shaftwall instead.
>
> > has there been any research into the effects of nuclear weaponry
> > and architecture to date- or has the measely fallout shelter been
> > a best guess at nuclear defense... is there no defense to be had?
>
> Have you seen the films from the 50s a-bomb tests? They would build
> different kinds of buildings---little masonry and frame houses (complete
> with crash-test dummy families), barns, concrete bunkers, and film them at
> high speed to see what happens.
>
> T'wasn't purty.
>
> > a top-secret US Government fallout shelter for Senators and
> > Congressional members and their families. see the facility via
> > QTVR movies. read the interview about the construction of the
> > facility and its purpose. and view the amazingly american
> > interior decorating of a black-budge building....
> >
> > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/amex/bomb/sfeature/
>
> Is this the one built under a Virginia resort hotel?
>
> Duck and cover! How naive we were to think that someone might actually
> survive a 20 MT nuke blast. Simple extrapolation of the Hiroshima and
> Nagasaki results would have suggested otherwise.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: nominations (?)
> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:09:42 -0700
> From: brian carroll <human@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> >Is this the one built under a Virginia resort hotel?
>
> hi Mark, yes it was. a very interesting interview with the
> bomb shelter's director of facilities is on the site's main page
>
> >Duck and cover! How naive we were to think that someone might actually
> >survive a 20 MT nuke blast. Simple extrapolation of the Hiroshima and
> >Nagasaki results would have suggested otherwise.
>
> there are six films with Quicktime, two of which have buildings
> which demonstrate the concept of Pounds-per-Square-Inch (PSI)
> pressure from an atom blast, with winds up to 500 mph. one of
> the short films, the last or second to last i think, shows army
> troops standing up in a nuclear wind. wow. hard to believe. there
> is also a layer-cake bomb simulation which makes me think about
> our harnessing of minute particles of energy, and how these
> things have vast ramifications, nuclear power, nuclear ships
> and submarines, nuclear powerplants, nuclear bombs... i wonder
> what "nanotechnology" is going to bring our way, inching down
> from the micro to the nano, or billionth of a meter scale...
>
> here's the url for the films:
>
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/amex/bomb/sfeature/videos.html
>
> bc
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: nominations (?)
> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:15:15 -0700
> From: brian carroll <human@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> interesting also, followingthe "Maps" link on the site, to see
> Nevada in the lead for atomic experimentation, with 935 Atomic
> Blasts, on the record, Kazakhstan (USSR) a far second at 496 tests.
>
> i wonder what this makes of "Learning from Las Vegas", where you
> have this kind of paradigmatic (sorry GW but i like the word) change
> of order (pre- to post-atomic), and at the same time an artificial
> electronic (nuclear-powered?) oasis, SIN-city, that only a Bacchus
> would be proud of.
>
> bc
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: test (poem?) by whomevers
> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:00:44 -0700
> From: brian carroll <human@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> >brian, it's simple. you are interested in "seeing" and recognizing the
> >invisiblity and (modern) transparancy of our architecture/environment today.
> >all your points are poignant and all worth further consideration. my point,
> >however, deals specifically with architecture's first principles, i.e.,
> >duality in extreme and its unrelenting distinction between inside and
> >outside. i cite the great pyramid as a prime example of architecture as
> >duality in extreme, and you (correctly) cite the international space station
> >as also an example of extreme architecture. just be sure that you likewise
> >acknowledge that the international space station is also an example of
> >architecture's unrelenting distinction between inside and outside (and in
> >that sense, even a space suit is exteme architecture). sl
>
> i'm thinking about it Steve. my thought is to connect the two strands.
> the "inside-outside paradox" post, with the space station as example.
>
> i think the (line of) differentiation between inside and outside is
> paradigmatically different in the space station example, than from
> the pyramid example (unless brought into a metaphysical level about
> the beliefs in an afterlife, which i am not including right now)..
>
> like a person, sitting on a chair in a room, with no windows, and
> looking at a photograph of the outside of their house... there is
> something similar happening when, say, this fictional stereotypical
> person is sitting watching CNN with a live-broadcast from the US
> Space Shuttle with video of the Earth, at however many miles of
> radius away from our planet.
>
> like a gradient, moving from one color to another, making a
> transition or phase change, i imagine that the concept of "inside"
> and "outside" is on a similar (line of) change of state. where
> does inside begin and outside end... it is a matter of perception.
>
> it may be my (lack of) perceptual understanding of this situation,
> but for me it is a confusion... that is, maybe there is an anthro-
> pomorphic, human-centric idea of *inside-outside* that, say, another
> species in the universe would differ with. or, that my difficulty
> may center around the role of technology in relation to the word-
> concept inside-outside...
>
> it seems to me that there is a paradox, maybe a similar mystery
> to the Pharoahs, their afterlife existing inside the pyramid or
> elsewhere, a transformation, but off limits to material discovery...
>
> i understand the idea of the space suit, as an extreme of inside-
> outside architecture - and, have often marveled at the Moon landing
> aesthetic, and drawings of 'moon colony architecture', as that of
> fictional mars colonies - but, for me the question is, not so much
> with the body in the relation between inside and outside -- but
> the mind.. if and how an individual perceives in and out today,
> as opposed to 1oo or 1,ooo or 1o,ooo years ago.
>
> maybe there really is not much difference as i thought exists
> between the space shuttle/space station and the Great Pyramid.
> both examples, Lewis Mumford would say, have similar power over
> the masses of people and their minds to perform the seemingly
> impossible, in the name of... (destiny?)
>
> bc
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> a r c h i t e x t u r e z : an online community for hacking
> and cracking the architectural code - www.architexturez.com
> g l o s s a l a l i a : the design-l architectural glossary
> submit your word-concepts www.architexturez.com/glossalalia
> s i t e : visit bc's portfolio - www.architexturez.com/site
> ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
. .NOT THE LIST. . .
Automatic digest processor wrote:
>
> Subject: DESIGN-L Digest - 19 Apr 1999 to 20 Apr 1999 (#1999-25)
> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 00:00:48 -0400
> From: Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Reply-To: "Basic and applied design (Art and Architecture)"
<DESIGN-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: Recipients of DESIGN-L digests <DESIGN-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> There are 7 messages totalling 267 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. test (poem?) by whomevers (2)
> 2. Unsubscribe
> 3. nominations (?) (4)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: test (poem?) by whomevers
> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:12:37 -0400
> From: lauf-s <lauf-s@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> >i know, i was just economically utilizing some poetic emphasis. sl
>
> sorry, i guess i don't understand. bc
>
> brian, it's simple. you are interested in "seeing" and recognizing the
> invisiblity and (modern) transparancy of our architecture/environment today.
> all your points are poignant and all worth further consideration. my point,
> however, deals specifically with architecture's first principles, i.e.,
> duality in extreme and its unrelenting distinction between inside and
> outside. i cite the great pyramid as a prime example of architecture as
> duality in extreme, and you (correctly) cite the international space station
> as also an example of extreme architecture. just be sure that you likewise
> acknowledge that the international space station is also an example of
> architecture's unrelenting distinction between inside and outside (and in
> that sense, even a space suit is exteme architecture). sl
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Unsubscribe
> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:04:58 +0800
> From: "J.Cruel" <sambo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> unsubscribe<sambo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: nominations (?)
> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:39:28 -0700
> From: brian carroll <human@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> in the back of my mind, having survived Operation Urban Warrior
> in Alameda, a mock scenario of urban-combat, likely the way wars
> will be waged in the present-future... has been the thought of the
> nuclear arsenal.. an architectural what-if..
>
> what if a nuclear weapon was aimed at the downtown center of any
> large (million) metropolitan area... say, a Inter-Continental
> Ballistic Missile (ICBM) with a nuclear warhead crashing down,
> ground zero in Manhattan, or San Francisco.
>
> would skyscrapers fall, toppling ontop of one another like
> dominos? would foundations melt? what if..?
>
> has there been any research into the effects of nuclear weaponry
> and architecture to date- or has the measely fallout shelter been
> a best guess at nuclear defense... is there no defense to be had?
>
> there is a website from the American Experience which maps the
> effect of a nuclear blast on your zipcode... at:
>
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/amex/bomb/sfeature/blastmap.html
>
> my nomination for the most important building of the 20th century:
>
> a top-secret US Government fallout shelter for Senators and
> Congressional members and their families. see the facility via
> QTVR movies. read the interview about the construction of the
> facility and its purpose. and view the amazingly american
> interior decorating of a black-budge building....
>
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/amex/bomb/sfeature/
>
> see the BLAST MAPPER | BUNKER | BLAST VIDEOS | PANIC QUIZ | CHARTS...
>
> bc
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: nominations (?)
> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:52:28 -0400
> From: Mark Darrall <mdarrall@xxxxxxxxxx>
>
> At 05:39 PM 4/20/99 -0700, Brian wrote:
> > in the back of my mind, having survived Operation Urban Warrior
> > in Alameda, a mock scenario of urban-combat, likely the way wars
> > will be waged in the present-future... has been the thought of the
> > nuclear arsenal.. an architectural what-if..
>
> Present indeed! If we send ground-pounders to Yugoslavia, a good portion of
> the fighting will be conducted in urban settings. Just remember Mogadishu,
> and you'll get an idea of what's in store for our young men and women.
> Hopefully, the Urban Warrior exercises pay off.
>
> Better, of course, that they never be needed.
>
> > would skyscrapers fall, toppling ontop of one another like
> > dominos? would foundations melt? what if..?
>
> I would think that the lighter elements---curtain wall, finishes, would be
> vaporized. The light steel frames would melt, with the floor slabs falling
> to the basements. Perhaps the only thing left standing would be CIP concrete
> cores, which might serve as a refuge (talk about cold comfort!). Too bad if
> your building uses shaftwall instead.
>
> > has there been any research into the effects of nuclear weaponry
> > and architecture to date- or has the measely fallout shelter been
> > a best guess at nuclear defense... is there no defense to be had?
>
> Have you seen the films from the 50s a-bomb tests? They would build
> different kinds of buildings---little masonry and frame houses (complete
> with crash-test dummy families), barns, concrete bunkers, and film them at
> high speed to see what happens.
>
> T'wasn't purty.
>
> > a top-secret US Government fallout shelter for Senators and
> > Congressional members and their families. see the facility via
> > QTVR movies. read the interview about the construction of the
> > facility and its purpose. and view the amazingly american
> > interior decorating of a black-budge building....
> >
> > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/amex/bomb/sfeature/
>
> Is this the one built under a Virginia resort hotel?
>
> Duck and cover! How naive we were to think that someone might actually
> survive a 20 MT nuke blast. Simple extrapolation of the Hiroshima and
> Nagasaki results would have suggested otherwise.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: nominations (?)
> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:09:42 -0700
> From: brian carroll <human@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> >Is this the one built under a Virginia resort hotel?
>
> hi Mark, yes it was. a very interesting interview with the
> bomb shelter's director of facilities is on the site's main page
>
> >Duck and cover! How naive we were to think that someone might actually
> >survive a 20 MT nuke blast. Simple extrapolation of the Hiroshima and
> >Nagasaki results would have suggested otherwise.
>
> there are six films with Quicktime, two of which have buildings
> which demonstrate the concept of Pounds-per-Square-Inch (PSI)
> pressure from an atom blast, with winds up to 500 mph. one of
> the short films, the last or second to last i think, shows army
> troops standing up in a nuclear wind. wow. hard to believe. there
> is also a layer-cake bomb simulation which makes me think about
> our harnessing of minute particles of energy, and how these
> things have vast ramifications, nuclear power, nuclear ships
> and submarines, nuclear powerplants, nuclear bombs... i wonder
> what "nanotechnology" is going to bring our way, inching down
> from the micro to the nano, or billionth of a meter scale...
>
> here's the url for the films:
>
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/amex/bomb/sfeature/videos.html
>
> bc
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: nominations (?)
> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:15:15 -0700
> From: brian carroll <human@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> interesting also, followingthe "Maps" link on the site, to see
> Nevada in the lead for atomic experimentation, with 935 Atomic
> Blasts, on the record, Kazakhstan (USSR) a far second at 496 tests.
>
> i wonder what this makes of "Learning from Las Vegas", where you
> have this kind of paradigmatic (sorry GW but i like the word) change
> of order (pre- to post-atomic), and at the same time an artificial
> electronic (nuclear-powered?) oasis, SIN-city, that only a Bacchus
> would be proud of.
>
> bc
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: test (poem?) by whomevers
> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:00:44 -0700
> From: brian carroll <human@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> >brian, it's simple. you are interested in "seeing" and recognizing the
> >invisiblity and (modern) transparancy of our architecture/environment today.
> >all your points are poignant and all worth further consideration. my point,
> >however, deals specifically with architecture's first principles, i.e.,
> >duality in extreme and its unrelenting distinction between inside and
> >outside. i cite the great pyramid as a prime example of architecture as
> >duality in extreme, and you (correctly) cite the international space station
> >as also an example of extreme architecture. just be sure that you likewise
> >acknowledge that the international space station is also an example of
> >architecture's unrelenting distinction between inside and outside (and in
> >that sense, even a space suit is exteme architecture). sl
>
> i'm thinking about it Steve. my thought is to connect the two strands.
> the "inside-outside paradox" post, with the space station as example.
>
> i think the (line of) differentiation between inside and outside is
> paradigmatically different in the space station example, than from
> the pyramid example (unless brought into a metaphysical level about
> the beliefs in an afterlife, which i am not including right now)..
>
> like a person, sitting on a chair in a room, with no windows, and
> looking at a photograph of the outside of their house... there is
> something similar happening when, say, this fictional stereotypical
> person is sitting watching CNN with a live-broadcast from the US
> Space Shuttle with video of the Earth, at however many miles of
> radius away from our planet.
>
> like a gradient, moving from one color to another, making a
> transition or phase change, i imagine that the concept of "inside"
> and "outside" is on a similar (line of) change of state. where
> does inside begin and outside end... it is a matter of perception.
>
> it may be my (lack of) perceptual understanding of this situation,
> but for me it is a confusion... that is, maybe there is an anthro-
> pomorphic, human-centric idea of *inside-outside* that, say, another
> species in the universe would differ with. or, that my difficulty
> may center around the role of technology in relation to the word-
> concept inside-outside...
>
> it seems to me that there is a paradox, maybe a similar mystery
> to the Pharoahs, their afterlife existing inside the pyramid or
> elsewhere, a transformation, but off limits to material discovery...
>
> i understand the idea of the space suit, as an extreme of inside-
> outside architecture - and, have often marveled at the Moon landing
> aesthetic, and drawings of 'moon colony architecture', as that of
> fictional mars colonies - but, for me the question is, not so much
> with the body in the relation between inside and outside -- but
> the mind.. if and how an individual perceives in and out today,
> as opposed to 1oo or 1,ooo or 1o,ooo years ago.
>
> maybe there really is not much difference as i thought exists
> between the space shuttle/space station and the Great Pyramid.
> both examples, Lewis Mumford would say, have similar power over
> the masses of people and their minds to perform the seemingly
> impossible, in the name of... (destiny?)
>
> bc
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> a r c h i t e x t u r e z : an online community for hacking
> and cracking the architectural code - www.architexturez.com
> g l o s s a l a l i a : the design-l architectural glossary
> submit your word-concepts www.architexturez.com/glossalalia
> s i t e : visit bc's portfolio - www.architexturez.com/site
> ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////