a thought arrived as a consequence of sharing
ideas about Eastern Orthodox, now Coptic, and
also Islamic religions in the context of 'middle-
east' and-or 'west'. it is wondered if, as Steve
has mentioned in many ways prior to this, if the
aspect of 'inversion' may exist in some way in-
between the cultures-- that there may not be a
common field, but some transformative relation...
I liked the word-concept I read from some news
release, on inter-civilization issues. Though also
to add, if there are places for diverse religions in
'the west' such as with a diverse and large Muslim
population in the .US, for instance, and in another
area of the world, say in Iraq or Ethopia, and Coptic
Christians, inside a largely more Islamic context,
yet still able to co-exist it seems, over the centuries.
It is wondered then if these demographic 'balance'
may be an inversion of sorts, maybe not universal
in certain ways, but maybe there is something to
the evidence that people _already can co-exist of
vastly different traditions, if a context provides and
protects that right, yet it may be in other terms of
place-based situations. The best symbol/image
of this, to me, would be the yin/yang with a smaller
realm inside another, while interrelated with an
inverted but complimentary aspect if seen whole.
Though, one part of this (which is very much like
a venn diagram) is that it would seem in places
the level of complexity could be overwhelming in
addressing the exponential 'differences', if always
or only viewed within a "private" consideration- a
19th century world-view, if that, which continues to
be demonstrated by a select few 'western' leaders,
who may believe their worldview is 'the world view'.
Say, a certain country who may find it has a private
right to start WWIII though they may not consider it
in these terms, only in those of their private interest.
what if in the areas which are complex, the 'private'
nature of religion were to be delineated in space/
time/place, respected and protected that is, yet that
a 'public' space/time/place for co-existence of many
differences could exist, so that 'the public' has a view
of itself, which is not through some private eyes-only.
for me this is more a lesson learned out of necessity
that, say, to view all wooden-poles as being Christian
crosses lining all the streets of the world was not the
only view, (though if inebriated it might seem like it).
That is, by examining the symbol of the cross, it may
have origins in, say, a boat mast, or some non-private
view of it, in the larger context. Though, when living in
a country founded in a certain tradition, it may have in
its details aspects which would seem to encourage a
type of Christian symbology (snake-named streetlight,
'cobra-head' whose armature extends off the cross-arm
distribution poles, thus a snake and cross, a common
enough Christian symbol, and ubiquitous everywhere).
The thing that helped rationalize this was realizing it
could not possibly be the only interpretation yet if one
is brought up only in one view of the world, it may not
be available what may be another option, unless there
is information or some way to reconsider assumptions
or to question aloud the ideas and share data/details.
It seems others have dealt with similar symbolism in
a 'western' context, to include many photographers.
Though, within a secular or public culture, this same
private recognition of correspondence is not the only
way to see nor understand these symbols, even if it
has some partial truth to its private dimension. There
may be something like 50 billion wooden "crosses"
upon the planet in the form of electrical distribution
poles, and in places where the symbolism may not
ever be of a cross as a religious symbol, either as
a conscious connection (though, novel, of course,
coincidence) or subconscious where it is noted yet
insignificant as having any meaning as a symbol,
in relation to its aesthetics, given a private view or
a public view (public utilities). Obtuse way to get to
an idea, though I am attempting to make a case for
a publicness that may exist in the symbolically rich
environments and cultures which have originated
and been dealing with such dimensions for all of
civilization, literally defined in rural->urbanization,
and this may be another layer upon the previous
ones. Maybe the commonality of the public symbol
of a structural pole existing everywhere may also
enable a sense of shared science-technological
existence of some connections yet to happen in
other sectors of cultural or mainly, human relations,
which may be caught in outdated and hype-driven
"privatized" views, whether that of an individual- or
a nation-state of the world, as it is represented to
the mind that sees, considers, reflects, projects.
I think there must be a lot that could be taught to
the 'west' if somehow what is in common could
be discussed yet not in oppositional contexts of
some 'go it alone' private-worldview, which to a
public world is beyond sub-par, and can only be
equated with a round of world-class speed-golf,
where the 'world' is a golf course inside of gates
on some country club with McMansions all about
as some kind of utopia to be replicated, absurdly.
not that there is anything particularly immoral or
wrong with this, but as a model for development
of the world, to develop a public representation
between (public) cultural realities, or even more
civically-minded, an inter-civilization connection,
it would seem that a 'public' symbolism would be
necessary to differentiate from the purely private
definition of reality, made for everyone by a much
smaller group than the group itself, in terms of a
capacity for understanding being limited by the
constraints of barriers to change. For instance,
here in the .US it may be difficult to consider a
symbolism outside of a westernized worldview
due to limitations and constraints put upon the
imagination, maybe even by the culture itself,
to always look towards 'the future' for example.
unknown if others feel an amazement yet there
is something magical to seeing the influences of
cultures in architectures, and places where they
can co-exist and now are at odds and even war
or on the brink of catastrophe due to complexities
it is wondered if it is because a 'publicness' is not
able to bridge the private points of view, with the
parts held in common, that transcend the details
of any one part that demands a private exclusivity
versus something that is, largely, wholly shared.
such as, wanting a clean environment, jobs, to
have peace, sustainable living, opportunities to
learn, share, dream. what would be especially
great is if a 'great exchange' could occur within
a context of inter-civilization, public awareness
of the 'world' itself, as a public place, inhabited by
all, not just a new 'king of the (world) mountain'.
there is this symbol that is common in the western
countries that no one has been able to decipher in
terms of its origins. Yet I am certain someone in the
realm in exists (flipping of alphabets in 4D patterns,
like Arabic or Islamic patterns) would know at least
some connections and maybe even what may be
a feasible consideration (public) for such a mystery.
I don't think there is a person in the 'west' who really
cares much about such things, because it is of a
different way of seeing things, that another culture
has fully developed and likely may think differently
as a result of such considerations of patterning or
organization of information or knowledge in such
ways or by certain methods of representation. (e.g.
HIOX http://www.electronetwork.org/exhibits/hiox/ ).
whatever the symbolism, the question would seem
to include both the realms of their private and public
interpretations, in certain contexts. There is global
locality and local globality, and this is also both in
a private or public sense, yet where a complexity-
level seems to override the systems of interpretation
the public-private interaction seems to fuse into an
undifferentiated mass, maybe it is actually a chaos
outside of definition or understanding or reasoning,
because, it may be babble or even incommunicable,
the 'public' context in which 'private' things take place.
many publics and many private realms and possibly
many more public-private overlappings which could
overload all systems and bring them down in chaos
and confusion. yet, it would seem that a 'coherent'
or synchronous inter-civilizational public has yet to
be established, between those close in proximity or
even those far away, beyond some privatized views
which cannot go outside of certain bounds or limits
to what can be considered as real, true, or possible.
it seems that simplicity and connections and sharing
ideas would be fundamental in this regard, instead
of some final-package highly-retail approach to life.
or aesthetics, or architecture, or peace for that matter.
brian
On Thursday, April 1, 2004, at 12:00 PM, patachon wrote:
--
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Visit archives: http://lists.psu.edu/archives/design-l.html
ideas about Eastern Orthodox, now Coptic, and
also Islamic religions in the context of 'middle-
east' and-or 'west'. it is wondered if, as Steve
has mentioned in many ways prior to this, if the
aspect of 'inversion' may exist in some way in-
between the cultures-- that there may not be a
common field, but some transformative relation...
I liked the word-concept I read from some news
release, on inter-civilization issues. Though also
to add, if there are places for diverse religions in
'the west' such as with a diverse and large Muslim
population in the .US, for instance, and in another
area of the world, say in Iraq or Ethopia, and Coptic
Christians, inside a largely more Islamic context,
yet still able to co-exist it seems, over the centuries.
It is wondered then if these demographic 'balance'
may be an inversion of sorts, maybe not universal
in certain ways, but maybe there is something to
the evidence that people _already can co-exist of
vastly different traditions, if a context provides and
protects that right, yet it may be in other terms of
place-based situations. The best symbol/image
of this, to me, would be the yin/yang with a smaller
realm inside another, while interrelated with an
inverted but complimentary aspect if seen whole.
Though, one part of this (which is very much like
a venn diagram) is that it would seem in places
the level of complexity could be overwhelming in
addressing the exponential 'differences', if always
or only viewed within a "private" consideration- a
19th century world-view, if that, which continues to
be demonstrated by a select few 'western' leaders,
who may believe their worldview is 'the world view'.
Say, a certain country who may find it has a private
right to start WWIII though they may not consider it
in these terms, only in those of their private interest.
what if in the areas which are complex, the 'private'
nature of religion were to be delineated in space/
time/place, respected and protected that is, yet that
a 'public' space/time/place for co-existence of many
differences could exist, so that 'the public' has a view
of itself, which is not through some private eyes-only.
for me this is more a lesson learned out of necessity
that, say, to view all wooden-poles as being Christian
crosses lining all the streets of the world was not the
only view, (though if inebriated it might seem like it).
That is, by examining the symbol of the cross, it may
have origins in, say, a boat mast, or some non-private
view of it, in the larger context. Though, when living in
a country founded in a certain tradition, it may have in
its details aspects which would seem to encourage a
type of Christian symbology (snake-named streetlight,
'cobra-head' whose armature extends off the cross-arm
distribution poles, thus a snake and cross, a common
enough Christian symbol, and ubiquitous everywhere).
The thing that helped rationalize this was realizing it
could not possibly be the only interpretation yet if one
is brought up only in one view of the world, it may not
be available what may be another option, unless there
is information or some way to reconsider assumptions
or to question aloud the ideas and share data/details.
It seems others have dealt with similar symbolism in
a 'western' context, to include many photographers.
Though, within a secular or public culture, this same
private recognition of correspondence is not the only
way to see nor understand these symbols, even if it
has some partial truth to its private dimension. There
may be something like 50 billion wooden "crosses"
upon the planet in the form of electrical distribution
poles, and in places where the symbolism may not
ever be of a cross as a religious symbol, either as
a conscious connection (though, novel, of course,
coincidence) or subconscious where it is noted yet
insignificant as having any meaning as a symbol,
in relation to its aesthetics, given a private view or
a public view (public utilities). Obtuse way to get to
an idea, though I am attempting to make a case for
a publicness that may exist in the symbolically rich
environments and cultures which have originated
and been dealing with such dimensions for all of
civilization, literally defined in rural->urbanization,
and this may be another layer upon the previous
ones. Maybe the commonality of the public symbol
of a structural pole existing everywhere may also
enable a sense of shared science-technological
existence of some connections yet to happen in
other sectors of cultural or mainly, human relations,
which may be caught in outdated and hype-driven
"privatized" views, whether that of an individual- or
a nation-state of the world, as it is represented to
the mind that sees, considers, reflects, projects.
I think there must be a lot that could be taught to
the 'west' if somehow what is in common could
be discussed yet not in oppositional contexts of
some 'go it alone' private-worldview, which to a
public world is beyond sub-par, and can only be
equated with a round of world-class speed-golf,
where the 'world' is a golf course inside of gates
on some country club with McMansions all about
as some kind of utopia to be replicated, absurdly.
not that there is anything particularly immoral or
wrong with this, but as a model for development
of the world, to develop a public representation
between (public) cultural realities, or even more
civically-minded, an inter-civilization connection,
it would seem that a 'public' symbolism would be
necessary to differentiate from the purely private
definition of reality, made for everyone by a much
smaller group than the group itself, in terms of a
capacity for understanding being limited by the
constraints of barriers to change. For instance,
here in the .US it may be difficult to consider a
symbolism outside of a westernized worldview
due to limitations and constraints put upon the
imagination, maybe even by the culture itself,
to always look towards 'the future' for example.
unknown if others feel an amazement yet there
is something magical to seeing the influences of
cultures in architectures, and places where they
can co-exist and now are at odds and even war
or on the brink of catastrophe due to complexities
it is wondered if it is because a 'publicness' is not
able to bridge the private points of view, with the
parts held in common, that transcend the details
of any one part that demands a private exclusivity
versus something that is, largely, wholly shared.
such as, wanting a clean environment, jobs, to
have peace, sustainable living, opportunities to
learn, share, dream. what would be especially
great is if a 'great exchange' could occur within
a context of inter-civilization, public awareness
of the 'world' itself, as a public place, inhabited by
all, not just a new 'king of the (world) mountain'.
there is this symbol that is common in the western
countries that no one has been able to decipher in
terms of its origins. Yet I am certain someone in the
realm in exists (flipping of alphabets in 4D patterns,
like Arabic or Islamic patterns) would know at least
some connections and maybe even what may be
a feasible consideration (public) for such a mystery.
I don't think there is a person in the 'west' who really
cares much about such things, because it is of a
different way of seeing things, that another culture
has fully developed and likely may think differently
as a result of such considerations of patterning or
organization of information or knowledge in such
ways or by certain methods of representation. (e.g.
HIOX http://www.electronetwork.org/exhibits/hiox/ ).
whatever the symbolism, the question would seem
to include both the realms of their private and public
interpretations, in certain contexts. There is global
locality and local globality, and this is also both in
a private or public sense, yet where a complexity-
level seems to override the systems of interpretation
the public-private interaction seems to fuse into an
undifferentiated mass, maybe it is actually a chaos
outside of definition or understanding or reasoning,
because, it may be babble or even incommunicable,
the 'public' context in which 'private' things take place.
many publics and many private realms and possibly
many more public-private overlappings which could
overload all systems and bring them down in chaos
and confusion. yet, it would seem that a 'coherent'
or synchronous inter-civilizational public has yet to
be established, between those close in proximity or
even those far away, beyond some privatized views
which cannot go outside of certain bounds or limits
to what can be considered as real, true, or possible.
it seems that simplicity and connections and sharing
ideas would be fundamental in this regard, instead
of some final-package highly-retail approach to life.
or aesthetics, or architecture, or peace for that matter.
brian
On Thursday, April 1, 2004, at 12:00 PM, patachon wrote:
yes, entr-acte is a bridge between two acts, generally different, asi
in some opera. between "deux actes"
a connection.or union ? (but always keeping some distance...)
any art need some understanding...
even the local one
Pat.
http://www.iht.com/articles/512763.html
--
The Design-L list for art and architecture, since 1992...
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To signoff, send mailto:design-l-unsubscribe-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.
Visit archives: http://lists.psu.edu/archives/design-l.html