----- Original Message -----
From: "brian carroll" <human@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Facades, Masks, and Real Faces. ARCHITECTURAL EDUCATION ANDPRACTICE.
> sidenote: as the rest is not worth responding to (some
> very insightful (education, interdisciplinary), some bad
> (the below), and some ugly (teacher as spiritual guide).
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 25, 2004, at 02:37 PM, Howard Ray Lawrence wrote:
>
> > as
> > > it threatens the utopian belief system of modernist ideology,
> > > which has thoroughly been dissected on list over a period
> > > of years and which surely does not need reminding of how
> > > basic an observation this is in the context of today's world.
> > Do you object to The Ecole Bueaux Arts approach to architecture?
> > Do you object to Bauhaus?
> > Organic architecture?
> > Architectural programming/systems analysis, operations research?
> > Post Modern?
> > Deconstructivism?
> > (These are just vehicles for learning---and fashionable one as that!)
> > Are you suggesting, as I sometimes do, just solve the problem---and
> > with firmness, commodity, and delight?
> > Has not the Modern Movement made some valuable contributions to
> > architecture?
> > Do you hate, for example, the architecture art work of Hertzog and de
> > Meuron?
>
categories are just what they are. results of change imposed by some or many (imposed ?? : did I write imposed ?)
but simultaneously adopted by others (the public , critics, or their likes) and even sponsorised .
about categories, genres or styles, "Tous les goûts sont dans la nature ",,, so so much about hating or objecting some.
>
> very oedipal, the father-son firm, and all that.
hmmmmm.
an artist always has difficulties to consider his work as a bad one, except if he's a talented father of his art.
same for a father about his own kids....
and the overprotection is frequent : of the artwork, the work, the product (including a long lasting list on which we still can write here ) as if those were like the sons. Is there an Oedipean complex for fathers, btw ?
there is
> no substance to the _ideas of architecture, your post
> about education is very informative, insightful, your
> ideas about architecture are below average in their
> addressing the complexity of the larger questions,
you'r e rude there, my dear BC...
> yet it is being limited by this interpretation as you are
> the determiner of the truth of the matter, as: you know.
collaboration versus domination ... same old story.
> glad you've got the metaphysics bug, but that is a
> "private" belief that is limiting to "public" ideas in
> the realm of architecture, design, art, et cetera.
limiting THE public ideas... i would say there...
> a world of 6 billion in this way gets limited by one
> who has power in some structure which is based
> on a larger class (of ideas) bounded by individual
> ideas (finite) which can and often are ideological:
there you describe also the politician leadership when considered as a kind of paternalism .
Stalin the father of mother Russia, the Nazi era fatherland...North Korean leader, or the Eva Peron era.
but the need of a model is also a constant of societies, including in art. or architecture.
the point is how to become a master after being a student , a slave or an apprentice...
to learn how to surpass, eventually, the model. the teacher. the system...
> the infinite and unbounded aspects of architecture
> thus serve the finite bounded defining by architects.
should you write "some architects" here ?
> this is the master/apprentice model you mention so
> often, except it is much more akin to master/slave.
>
any student of any thing must learn how to... such process includes a combination of humility in the student (i have to learn more) and from the teacher (which always will learn from the rest of the world around him, even inside his classroom, and from the words, faces, visions ,expressions or insights emulated from his student's minds if the teacher is talented.
This list can emulate many.
who cares if there is some master here, finally, if we are all - probably - still untrained dogs....
> that's not education, that's training, by and for dogs,
> or gods, depending on the one-way mirrors in Oz.
funny your phrase here, Brian...
Gods and their sheeps, with some good god's dogs to keep them in the good pathway to god's heaven...
On one side gods and dogs,
on the other the devils, the sheep ....and what else ?
but the neutral position of the spectator between the two sides of the mirrors applies only to the singular : dog><god... therefore it becomes a question of personal point of view and criteria.
If someone decides to imitate a model, or follow his path , he 'll have to manage how to avoid becoming just his master's voice.
about teacher and spiritual guidance, if a teacher can emulate some kind of behavior, let's hope such 'll be a good one.
What's a good one for you , me or someone else ?
is behavior (in modern society) based on social values and eventually some spirituality (not necessarily religious) ? or on plain knowledge of scientifical abstracts and experiments ? facts instead of faces ?
P.
--
The Design-L list for art and architecture, since 1992...
To subscribe, send mailto:design-l-subscribe-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.
To signoff, send mailto:design-l-unsubscribe-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.
Visit archives: http://lists.psu.edu/archives/design-l.html