RE: atheism


------ =_NextPart_000_01BB2D0D.DFBAB2C0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Tom,

your last post said:

>> Dear Martin,
>>=20
>> This pigeon squares up to the cat. Heidegger consistently makes a =
clear =3D
>> distinction between "Church doctrine" (die Kirchenlehre) and =
Christian =3D
>> faith (der Glaube).
>
>Doesn't nearly *every* Christian?

No. How about St. Anselm's Fides quaerens intellectum. Most Catholic =
theology in particular is carried out in the firm conviction that the =
two belong together. Some is even carried out as if they were the same.

And to Chris Rickey,

The references in Nietzsche and the Einfuehrung are numerous. They're =
not difficult to find, and I don't have time to look them up, I'm =
afraid.

I don't know of the Italian salad quote, nor where and when he believed =
Catholics needed exterminating, though he did throw some Jesuits out of =
his lectures in the thirties. The reasons for this are, I suspect, =
quite complex, if you recall what he has to say about the Jesuit Order =
in relation to works of art.

To avoid Italian Salads and other seductive dishes whose actual eating =
might deliver less than their immediate visual appeal promises, I wonder =
if we might consider the more gristly fare of what is actually going on =
in Heidegger's understanding of God (harder to chew on but more =
nourishing in the end).

For Heidegger, the proposition (for those who might have trouble with =
Heidegger and propositions, I refer them to Zur Sache des Denkens, in =
particular the last paragraph on p. 25)

"God does not exist"

speaks only of existence and says nothing whatever of God. This is less =
cryptic (though no less demanding) than it seems if one bears in mind =
that, for instance, for Eckhart one can speak of God's essence, but that =
he held God did not exist.

Heidegger is a philosopher of *existence* - is this why he does not =
undertake a *theology* (of God)? Here the very term "atheism" breaks =
down. "Atheism" is perhaps no more than a further determination of =
onto-theo-logy. But then it would be, wouldn't it?

To undertake the "step back" and so to move out of onto-theo-logy would =
mean to cease to work with terms like "atheism" "theism" etc, but does =
it therefore mean to cease to have faith or to bring oneself into =
faithful proximity with Christian revelation?

Perhaps one should keep firmly in one's mind that the Heidegger who will =
not undertake a theology never stops speaking of God throughout his =
lectures and works.=20

Laurence
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB2D0D.DFBAB2C0
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BB2D0D.DFBAB2C0--



--- from list heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ---


Folow-ups
  • Jesuits/Art
    • From: Kathy Schnapper
  • Partial thread listing: