>From: allen scult <allen.scult@xxxxxxxxx>
>To: heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: performance
>Date: Wed, Sep 22, 2004, 1:56 pm
>
>>Allen recently:
>>
>>> I know this subject got me into trouble once before, and I would much
>>> rather respond to Michael's
>>> wonderful post, but I have an "immediate" matter to discuss. We have
>>> been reading the Euthyphro in one of my classes, and I have been
>>> arguing, rather forcefully, that the only way to
>>> appreciate/understand what's going on in the text, is to presume that
>>> Socrates is being genuine, perhaps even authentic. That is to say,
>>> he really does believe that Euthyphro can tell him what piety is and
>>> thus, perhaps save his life, or at least help him better orient
>>> himself to the trial.
Allen, looking at this again, and given the translation I have of the
dialogue [I'm one of the impoverished that does not have greek] may have
slanted my view a mite, it appears to me that there is more than a particle
of irony in the slightly pious way Socrates addresses Euthphro in asking his
advice. It also appears that Socrates is engaging in (socratic) business as
usual in getting Euthphro to come up with the goods, whilst appearing
himself to be engaging in (mere) midwifery. Crafty bugger. But this is a
good performance and good performances transcend the occasion of their
happenstance (as you suggest below). Assuming that Socrates is "genuine"
(etc), is necessary for _our_ performance of the dialogue, perhaps?
>>> As the students examine this argument, I
>>> include myself, claiming that this directed ("determinate" would be
>>> something like Heidegger's word here) open way of proceeding is also
>>> genuinely true of my approach to teaching. My questioning is "real,"
>>> not a pedagogical device.
This is certainly reflected in your recent book.
>>> I was driving later in my car wondering whether I really believed
>>> that, and then on came a Leonard Cohen C.D. with the man singing "
>>> Joan of Arc." I was deeply taken in by the performance and
>>> experienced myself in the narrative, in love with the woman as he was
>>> etc. , etc. Then I thought, maybe Socrates or at least Plato was
>>> performing his teaching similarly, and maybe sometimes, perhaps even
>>> oftentimes, so am I, singing my lines as as if for the first time.
>>> And when it's good, it is ( I think!).
Love those last two lines:
"Myself I long for love and light,
but must it come so cruel, and oh so bright "
The socratic warns of the blindness due to an excess of light as much as the
dimness of twilight, and both lean towards the sophistic; but there must be
love, an excess of leaning towards, the back-stretched connection
(Heraclitus), the cusp of be-ing...
And Suzanne:
"Now Suzanne takes your hand
And she leads you to the river
She is wearing rags and feathers
>From Salvation Army counters
And the sun pours down like honey
On our lady of the harbour
And she shows you where to look
Among the garbage and the flowers
There are heroes in the seaweed
There are children in the morning
They are leaning out for love
And they will lean that way forever
While Suzanne holds the mirror
And you want to travel with her
And you want to travel blind
And you know that you can trust her
For she's touched your perfect body with her mind. "
>>Allen, I wonder whether we make too much fuss over the supposed difference
>>between speaking genuinely (spontaneously, from the heart...) and speaking
>>as a performance (planned, from the art...). Just a thought: in the same way
>>that da-sein is already always in the world of its concern, the things of
>>its concern are not 'innocently' found as if... new, so perhaps 'genuine'
>>speech is just speech that has (mercifully) forgotten it always was a
>>performance; we are pre-formed to per-form?
>>
>>A jazz artist practices and rehearses like mad to be able to come out
>>performing spontaneously...
>>
>>regards
>>
>>michael the performer
>
> Michael the P.,
>
> Very helpful insight.
>
> Innocence, of course, is not constitutive of authenticity, but perhaps
> a certain measure of forgetfulness is.
Allen, I think I miswrote there; I meant something more like the things of
the world are not innocent, but that sounds mad... forget that!
> It's a forgetfulness that's
> "built into"
> Dasein's possibilities as being-in-the-world, perhaps something that Dasein
> gives up. . .sacrifices?
If only the imminent Yom Kippur (day of at-one-ment) were more about
for-getting than re-membering: into the future...
>
> I always consider a really good performance to
> be an act of extreme generosity. I can sometimes feel, if not fully
> understand,
> the work involved in giving what's being given.
>
> Regards,
>
> Allen
regards
michael
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> --- from list heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ---
>
>
>
> --- from list heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ---
>
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>To: heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: performance
>Date: Wed, Sep 22, 2004, 1:56 pm
>
>>Allen recently:
>>
>>> I know this subject got me into trouble once before, and I would much
>>> rather respond to Michael's
>>> wonderful post, but I have an "immediate" matter to discuss. We have
>>> been reading the Euthyphro in one of my classes, and I have been
>>> arguing, rather forcefully, that the only way to
>>> appreciate/understand what's going on in the text, is to presume that
>>> Socrates is being genuine, perhaps even authentic. That is to say,
>>> he really does believe that Euthyphro can tell him what piety is and
>>> thus, perhaps save his life, or at least help him better orient
>>> himself to the trial.
Allen, looking at this again, and given the translation I have of the
dialogue [I'm one of the impoverished that does not have greek] may have
slanted my view a mite, it appears to me that there is more than a particle
of irony in the slightly pious way Socrates addresses Euthphro in asking his
advice. It also appears that Socrates is engaging in (socratic) business as
usual in getting Euthphro to come up with the goods, whilst appearing
himself to be engaging in (mere) midwifery. Crafty bugger. But this is a
good performance and good performances transcend the occasion of their
happenstance (as you suggest below). Assuming that Socrates is "genuine"
(etc), is necessary for _our_ performance of the dialogue, perhaps?
>>> As the students examine this argument, I
>>> include myself, claiming that this directed ("determinate" would be
>>> something like Heidegger's word here) open way of proceeding is also
>>> genuinely true of my approach to teaching. My questioning is "real,"
>>> not a pedagogical device.
This is certainly reflected in your recent book.
>>> I was driving later in my car wondering whether I really believed
>>> that, and then on came a Leonard Cohen C.D. with the man singing "
>>> Joan of Arc." I was deeply taken in by the performance and
>>> experienced myself in the narrative, in love with the woman as he was
>>> etc. , etc. Then I thought, maybe Socrates or at least Plato was
>>> performing his teaching similarly, and maybe sometimes, perhaps even
>>> oftentimes, so am I, singing my lines as as if for the first time.
>>> And when it's good, it is ( I think!).
Love those last two lines:
"Myself I long for love and light,
but must it come so cruel, and oh so bright "
The socratic warns of the blindness due to an excess of light as much as the
dimness of twilight, and both lean towards the sophistic; but there must be
love, an excess of leaning towards, the back-stretched connection
(Heraclitus), the cusp of be-ing...
And Suzanne:
"Now Suzanne takes your hand
And she leads you to the river
She is wearing rags and feathers
>From Salvation Army counters
And the sun pours down like honey
On our lady of the harbour
And she shows you where to look
Among the garbage and the flowers
There are heroes in the seaweed
There are children in the morning
They are leaning out for love
And they will lean that way forever
While Suzanne holds the mirror
And you want to travel with her
And you want to travel blind
And you know that you can trust her
For she's touched your perfect body with her mind. "
>>Allen, I wonder whether we make too much fuss over the supposed difference
>>between speaking genuinely (spontaneously, from the heart...) and speaking
>>as a performance (planned, from the art...). Just a thought: in the same way
>>that da-sein is already always in the world of its concern, the things of
>>its concern are not 'innocently' found as if... new, so perhaps 'genuine'
>>speech is just speech that has (mercifully) forgotten it always was a
>>performance; we are pre-formed to per-form?
>>
>>A jazz artist practices and rehearses like mad to be able to come out
>>performing spontaneously...
>>
>>regards
>>
>>michael the performer
>
> Michael the P.,
>
> Very helpful insight.
>
> Innocence, of course, is not constitutive of authenticity, but perhaps
> a certain measure of forgetfulness is.
Allen, I think I miswrote there; I meant something more like the things of
the world are not innocent, but that sounds mad... forget that!
> It's a forgetfulness that's
> "built into"
> Dasein's possibilities as being-in-the-world, perhaps something that Dasein
> gives up. . .sacrifices?
If only the imminent Yom Kippur (day of at-one-ment) were more about
for-getting than re-membering: into the future...
>
> I always consider a really good performance to
> be an act of extreme generosity. I can sometimes feel, if not fully
> understand,
> the work involved in giving what's being given.
>
> Regards,
>
> Allen
regards
michael
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> --- from list heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ---
>
>
>
> --- from list heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ---
>
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