-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]Namens bob scheetz
Verzonden: dinsdag 28 september 2004 17:39
Aan: heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Onderwerp: Re: Rene and Philosophy II
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bakker, R.B.M. de" <R.B.M.deBakker@xxxxxx>
To: <heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 7:13 AM
Subject: RE: Rene and Philosophy II
>
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: owner-heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:owner-heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]Namens bob scheetz
> Verzonden: zaterdag 25 september 2004 16:49
> Aan: heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Onderwerp: Re: Rene and Philosophy II
>
>
>
> the trouble with the categorical dismissive, liar, imho, is the imputation
> of willful deceit, which, if apposite the tendentious usages of power,
> politicians, strausians, etc., traduces a class of non-power-freeky
(xians,
> marxians, humanist scientists, buddhists, nso on) albeit non-heideggerians
> honestly struggling for meaning, ...gross simplification worthy the
> exhuberance of youth, eminem, but not philosophy. imho truth is not
simple;
> disclosed-ness is also and simultaneously constructed-ness, ...and for
which
> the apodictical declaration that german/gk (groundless, subjectivist,
> aprioristic constructs) be essential to serious heideggerian thinking, at
> the same time denouncing all other believers (metafisicians) for liars,
is,
> for the contradiction, a luminous if melancholy demonstration
>
> yours,
> bob
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lying:
>
> 1.: Everyday lies by and for everyone.
>
>
> economics:
> "This car is friendly to the environment. Buy and drive it, and
> the couple will be a friend of nature."
>
> health:
> Your child is schizophrenic/your parent has Altzheimer. They have
> many of its symptoms. You can't do nothing about it. That's science.
>
>
> politics:
> "Support us to bring freedom and democracy to the whole world."
>
> family:
> "Better leave that boy alone, otherwise he'll come back strong"
> (Eminem)
>
> No philosophy is needed to perceive the cheating. One can feel it
> clearly when one is the victim, vaguely when one is (part of) the agent.
> It makes no sense to go to (2), if (1) is not *experienced*.
Philosophers
> often are unknowingly troubled by (1), and therefore go quickly to (2).
> But for the same reason they cannot recognize lying there.
>
>
> 2. Basic lies. They lie at the basis of 'what is today'. But as lies they
> don't present themselves as the truth of what is today. Rather, what is
> today, tends to remain hidden. It remains the best hidden, when there
is
> no (belief in) truth. The consequent insecurity opens the door to
terror.
> Massive weakness asks for a master. Truth then is no longer a problem.
> Because everyone lives actually in (1), everydaylife is more and more
> corrupted. (progress)
> Once again: the concrete, physical consequences of a metaphysics that
> is so fundamental, that, if its legacy is denied (lied about), only
> will reign stronger.
frankfurt'rs would completely agree, ...marxists have been indefatigably at
this critique, -the ideological enculturation inflicted on the defenseless
by bourgeois power, for near a century and half now. The discourse of Power
is strategic and therefore "lies". I think this level is almost universally
comprehended.
but what follows now seems to me a level #3, -an argument with ari's
categories, ...perhaps even problematizing "formality" altogether...
Bob, 'back to Aristotle' was the idea behind the reading of Leibniz,
Kant etc., and of Heidegger's Nietzsche 2 (on subjectivism).
When the 'dominance of the subject' leads, with Nietzsche, even to the
untenibility of all categories - mostly of the notion 'subject'
itself - , insofar as they are true notions of reality
>
> The one, thanks to who this more than complex situation, can be
unraveled,
> is the one covered with the most and the worst lies. Look what the
subject-object
> relation does: "Heidegger is a Nazi"." "Nihilism is always to be
fought".
> "Always humans have used the subject-object relation, and they'll
always will."
...deconstructing the category "facticity"? certainly, here, "heid is nazi"
is a lie as used by the holocaust industry; nor even, tendentiousness aside,
does it capture the global vastness of the subject, the object, or the
predication; but, substitute the entire lit on the area and theoretically it
could. So, though partial, it still seems to me "h is n" is at bottom
factical and "true".
I disagree. The object/target of the proposition is a construction. Heidegger
is indeed the name of the man, it's a German name, and not far away is the
word 'nazi', the other natural part of the construction, of which the intention
is clear: someone needs someone to stand upon, so that he can remain hidden, to
others and/or to himself.
Nazi is just a despicable thug word. The lowest common denominator of democratism.
Say you're a fascist, and you're automatically the lowest of all. (Juenger)
One can even throw atomic bombs, while defaming 'nazi's', esp. then.
With the 'reality' of why Heidegger joined a nationalist and socialist movement
of the after war years, this proposition has nothing to do, it does not
want to have to do with it, it wants merely maximum belief in the fictions, it
is used to. (the 'good' man etc.)
The 'facts' of modern science and its ideology are irreparibly a result of
the genesis of subjectivism, which is, from its beginning, a quest for power.
(Descartes: men can, through science, become "masters and owners of nature")
In Nietzsche's eyes, Aristotle belongs to "the great artists of abstraction" -
art means here will-to-power: creating the illusion of reality, needed for life.
(and therefore not arbitrary)
But that is hardly how Aristotle thought of categories himself, and in fact to
Nietzsche it does not matter what historical philosophers have really thought.
He seems to have read mostly secondary literature, which sufficed for a reading
not believing in pure text, but finding interpretation, valuation everywhere.
To Nietzsche there is no such thing as a stable reality: all that is stable must
have been made so, as a function of power.
Nietzsche can't, however, do without the idea of stableness itself, so that, even
while pulling away all claim of truth under metaphysics away, disintegration is to
be prevented, and stableness, for the sake of itself and of its overlapping, a must.
Sso that the only 'true reality': becoming, can only *be* thanks to stabilization,
and so remains coupled with 'Being'. The necessity of a highest being, a highest
WtP (Gerechtigkeit/justice), betrays the metaphysical impetus of his thought.
Meanwhile, if one recurs to Aristotle to find real things again, that way is no more.
In fact, there is no longer much to say about things and people, except in the context
of manipulation and conspiration.
It's only the completion of modern subjectivism, which completes metaphysics at the
same time, that might lead back to Greek thinking. This completion, that is for the time
being clouded in darkness, is not itself subjectivist, in the sense that it is sthing
that *we* do, but apparently, after being set in motion by Descartes etc., now comes over
us and everything in an uncontrollable way. We can registrate everyone and everything,
but never the war on terror can be won, because the distrust comes from farther or deeper
away.
The question is: what has THIS 'Geschick' in common with a Greek physis that is overpowering
too, but that appeared according to different ways of saying, the unity of which is *not* to
be found in man as subject. Then everything must turn, as soon as we're ready to. And man as
subject would only have been an interim.
Instead of writing histories of philosophy, it is the doubting modern subject that must come
from somewhere. We could hear that in the word physis.
>
> But metaphysics, the s-o relation, or: ontological difference are
nothing
> absolute, but they 'are' [stop] geschichtlich.
rene, you began above on "victims" and "agents", and everyday factical life.
i can't get over that the "mine-ness" and "there-ness" of being has to
necessitate the primordiality of s-o. certainly an iraqi torture victim
today experiences the absoluteness of his subjecticity and objecticity, as
did a jew in himmler's camps, ...and as surely iphigenia felt the same long
before the pre-socratics began programming the western mind. At the same
time a sublating of s-o, facticity, for one-ness with being, -formerly das
heilege, is "true" and absolute, ...only not exclusively, eh?
Seen from here, exclusivity is the claim of the others, and me the relativist.
The presence of das Heilige would even turn a sacrifice into the opposite
of god-forlorn bursting in Auschwitz or Gulag Archipel. (The direction of
both Jews and Greeks was though away from human sacrifices: family is sacred)
Stimmung would be so fundamental that it changes *everything*. We for instance
bring easily human sacrifices to our gods. In unparallelled quantities.
That should raise a question as to our Grundstimmung, which brings everything
into the position of object, so that it can't touch us, unless by terror.
rene
thanks,
bob
Metaphysics is nothing in
> a book, it 'is', insofar it is continued, or left out. So metaphysics
is
> not a subject, of which essential attributes can be predicated -
already
> a CONSEQUENCE of subjectivist thinking - this subject is NOW rather a
lie -
> the way metaphysics is now, as what it 'is' (reigns) now rather
thoroughly
> unclear. When THIS is seen, noticed, THEN the realm of
questionworthiness,
> of possibility is opened. Starting with the s-o relation, that has
gotten
> meaningless, and therefore brought to its ground, that still 'is', but
hidden
> behind, and in, this same s-o distinction. Metaphysics is not thrown
away,
> on the contrary, it is the angle, by which solely a turning can be
made.
>
>
> must go (really)
>
> rene
>
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