Re: poetry, language and music

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Reply to: Re: poetry, language and music
Dear Bill Devlin,

You wrote:

>
>Interesting translation of the passage, Allen. Could you share the =
>citation? In the _Origin of the Work of Art_ H. says similar things about =
the relations of =
>work, making, caft (techne) and art (poesis); language (as naming) and =
>poetry, and I had not considered the Symposium (one of my favorite =
Platonic =
>dialogues) very closely in a 'Heideggerian light' until you pointed this p=
assage out. =

>Easy question first. I got my translation of the passage from the =
Symposium from R.E. Allen in the Yale version.

Heidegger also says something similar about Poiesis in the Nietzsche =
lectures where he speaks about art as creating being from nonbeing,in =
other words, art brings into being that which heretofore did not exist. =
But of course once its is made, if the work of art has done its work well, =
its existence is "recognized" as "being." =

In his more lyrical moods, especially when reading Hoelderlin, Heidegger =
seems more in tune with the Greek connection between poiesis as a making,=
and the singing of a song. Related here is the wonderful ambiguity of "=
techne" ( which ambiguity includes rhetoric of course which further =
confuses the relationship between philosophy , poetry, music etc.). But =
one connection I think is fairly certain in the Greek view of things and =
that is that a techne is only worthy of the name if it can be said that =
the "know how" in question is at least in part presided over by the muses. =
And here we also have a striking connection to hermeneutics, which also =
insists that the sort of interpretation involved is one over which the =
interpreter does not ultimately preside.

As long as I'm rambling, Frank Sinatra died yesterday, , and I've been =
thinking of how his singing brought a way of being into existence which =
had previously been "strewn around" in bits and pieces, but never as =
fully embodied.

In which connection, I especially appreciate your citation of the =
following:
>
>"The more venturesome are those who say in a greater degree, in the =
manner =
>of the singer. . . . The song of these singers is neither solicitation =
nor trade. =
>The saying of the more venturesome which is more fully saying is the song.=
But =
>Song is existence, =
> =
>says the third of the Sonnets to Orpheus, PartI. The word for existence, =
>Dasein, is used here in the traditional sense of presence and as a =
synonym of =
>Being. To sing, truly to say worldly existence, to say out of the =
haleness of the =
>whole pure draft and to say only this, means: to belong to the precinct =
of beings =
>themselves. This precinct, as the very nature of language, is Being =
itself. To sing =
>the song means to be present in what is present itself. It means: Dasein, =
existence." =
> =
Thanks,

Allen
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<PRE WIDTH=3D"132">
Reply to: Re: poetry, language and music

</PRE>
Dear Bill Devlin, 
 
You wrote: 
 
> 
>Interesting =
translation of the passage, Allen. Could =
you share the 
>citation? In the _Origin =
of the Work of Art_ H. says similar things =
about the relations of 
>work, making, =
caft (techne) and art (poesis); language =
(as naming) and 
>poetry, and I had =
not considered the Symposium (one of my =
favorite Platonic 
>dialogues) very =
closely in a 'Heideggerian light' until =
you pointed this passage out. 
 
>Easy question first. =
I got my translation of the passage from =
the Symposium from R.E. Allen in the Yale =
version. 
 
Heidegger =
also says something similar about Poiesis =
in the Nietzsche lectures where he speaks =
about art as creating being from nonbeing,in =
other words, art brings into being that =
which heretofore did not exist. But of course =
once its is made, if the work of art has =
done its work well, its existence is "recognized" =
as "being." 
 
In his more =
lyrical moods, especially when reading Hoelderlin, =
Heidegger seems more in tune with the Greek =
connection between poiesis as a making, =
and the singing of a song. Related here =
is the wonderful ambiguity of "techne" =
( which ambiguity includes rhetoric of course =
which further confuses the relationship =
between philosophy , poetry, music etc.). =
But one connection I think is fairly certain =
in the Greek view of things and that is =
that a techne is only worthy of the name =
if it can be said that the "know how" =
in question is at least in part presided =
over by the muses. And here we also have =
a striking connection to hermeneutics, which =
also insists that the sort of interpretation =
involved is one over which the interpreter =
does not ultimately preside. 
 
As long =
as I'm rambling, Frank Sinatra died yesterday, =
, and I've been thinking of how his singing =
brought a way of being into existence which =
had previously been "strewn around" =
in bits and pieces, but never as fully =
embodied. 
 
In which connection, I especially =
appreciate your citation of the following: 
> 
>"The =
more venturesome are those who say in a =
greater degree, in the manner 
>of the =
singer. . . . The song of these singers =
is neither solicitation nor trade. 
>The =
saying of the more venturesome which is =
more fully saying is the song. But 
>Song =
is existence, 
> 
>says the third =
of the Sonnets to Orpheus, PartI. The word =
for existence, 
>Dasein, is used here =
in the traditional sense of presence and =
as a synonym of 
>Being. To sing, truly =
to say worldly existence, to say out of =
the haleness of the 
>whole pure draft =
and to say only this, means: to belong to =
the precinct of beings 
>themselves. =
This precinct, as the very nature of language, =
is Being itself. To sing 
>the song =
means to be present in what is present itself. =
It means: Dasein, existence." 
> =
 
Thanks, 
 
Allen</BODY></HTML>
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