Mark:
>But invoking Goethe suggests that it possible to read Plato this
>way: that the world can be apprehended and appreciated materially,
>with something else -- indefinable, inconceivable -- mixed through
>and through. With the exception of a piece of the _Timaeus_, I read
>Plato to be an anti-materialist through and through.
Not 'something else', but a dimension or depth to the phenomenon that
is itself the 'theory' or 'meaning' - perceived by an 'organ of
imagination' trained through rigorous observation and recreation so
that seeing takes on some of the quality of thought and thought some
of the quality of seeing. Goethe said: 'Don't look for anything
behind the phenomena, they themselves are the theory.' and 'The
greatest achievement would be to understand that everything factual
is already its own theory'. He was clearly anxious to avoid being
misread in the way Plato was - to avoid the 'Urphanomen' being seen
as separate or abstracted from the phenomenon itself. However, this
still proved too much for most of his contemporaries and
commentators.
Came upon this this afternoon by chance (synchronicity?). This is how
Goethe saw the relationship of his way of seeing with that of
Plato...
Im eignen Auge schaue mit Lust,
Was Plato von Anbeginn gewusst;
Denn das ist der natur Gehalt,
Dass aussen gilt, was innen galt.
Behold in your own eye with pleasure
What Plato knew in ancient measure;
This sense from nature you may win:
What's true outside was true within.
[Perhaps a German speaker can offer a better translation?]
alpha dog
>But invoking Goethe suggests that it possible to read Plato this
>way: that the world can be apprehended and appreciated materially,
>with something else -- indefinable, inconceivable -- mixed through
>and through. With the exception of a piece of the _Timaeus_, I read
>Plato to be an anti-materialist through and through.
Not 'something else', but a dimension or depth to the phenomenon that
is itself the 'theory' or 'meaning' - perceived by an 'organ of
imagination' trained through rigorous observation and recreation so
that seeing takes on some of the quality of thought and thought some
of the quality of seeing. Goethe said: 'Don't look for anything
behind the phenomena, they themselves are the theory.' and 'The
greatest achievement would be to understand that everything factual
is already its own theory'. He was clearly anxious to avoid being
misread in the way Plato was - to avoid the 'Urphanomen' being seen
as separate or abstracted from the phenomenon itself. However, this
still proved too much for most of his contemporaries and
commentators.
Came upon this this afternoon by chance (synchronicity?). This is how
Goethe saw the relationship of his way of seeing with that of
Plato...
Im eignen Auge schaue mit Lust,
Was Plato von Anbeginn gewusst;
Denn das ist der natur Gehalt,
Dass aussen gilt, was innen galt.
Behold in your own eye with pleasure
What Plato knew in ancient measure;
This sense from nature you may win:
What's true outside was true within.
[Perhaps a German speaker can offer a better translation?]
alpha dog