Criticizing one's own country more than any other is a hallmark
of disputatious democracy compared to duplicitous democracy.
Chauvinism is the conceit that out-viles all the rest for it leads to
terrible depredations against those who disagree.
Comfort food of the mind and heart kills more innocents than
any upfront warlike aggressions.
In design terms, which is what this discussion is about, refusing
to accept responsibility for the adverse consequences of your desires
and their fulfillment is the drug designers are addicted to and push
upon others who disdain willful crippling of oneself.
Design discourse is seldom modest, fair, tolerant and unaggressive,
and it is that way for the same reasons the military and governments
cannot last if they do not do dirty work for their clients, in particular
to never tell the truth of what they do and the perquisites they
enjoy for the self-serving deception long institutionalized in
civilization, in particular in the promulgation of one's own civlized
superiority to one's distanced victims -- religious, cultural, military.
Technology is a superior tool for distancing responsibility once
ruled by faith, then intellect, then faux democracy, then capitalism
and anti-capitalisms, then the media, then to hell with it, just nuke
the disobedient heathens, as Muschamp, in the spirit of when
all bribes fail, go with PJ's confessional Chauvinisme, to promote
his half dozen unisex Lolitas.
At 07:51 PM 1/24/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Clever, very clever, now that I read this again, but two questions, in
>the same language minus the sugar coating:
>
>One, why should one give a damn about whatever it is that Americans are
>trying to accomplish at home?
>
>Two, foreigners seem to be hassling Americans because Americans hassle
>them at home, so the ball is in the American's court as of now -- they
>quit, the rest quits and everybody happily goes home.
>
>Buildings get blown up because the Americans went to Afghanistan in the
>first place to hassle the soviets and left a mess behind, and they went
>in a foul mood remembering the way their asses were kicked in Vietnam
>(another place Americans went hassling people) and now the same guys who
>got walloped in Vietnam (and cuckolded by the Chinese) are back in seat
>and they want to hassle some more. So things would just work out if
>Americans said sorry for hassling everybody and sorry for all those
>massacres and genocide and sorry for being the most destructive nation
>in history and sorry for double-speak, because everybody will then just
>say apologies accepted, and don't hassle us again, please, and can we be
>nice to one another now?
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Basic and applied design (Art and Architecture)
>[mailto:DESIGN-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ronald Evitts
>Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 5:40 AM
>To: DESIGN-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: nuts or huts !
>
>well said!
>
>RONALD EVITTS ARCHITECT
>1201 Broadway, Room 503
>New York, NY 10001-5405
>
>212-679-7050 tel
>212-679-7058 fax
>revitts@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Basic and applied design (Art and Architecture)
>[mailto:DESIGN-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Gregory Wharton
>Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 7:34 PM
>To: DESIGN-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: nuts or huts !
>
>
>Derek,
>
>I never suggested that the ignorance of others' perspectives does not go
>both ways. Americans are, by and large, shockingly ignorant of the rest
>of
>the world--much to our detriment. But, the rest of the world is equally
>or
>even more ignorant of us. This is what I have been trying to point out
>here.
>
>The primary difference is: most Americans don't even pretend to know
>that
>much about the rest of the world (complacent ignorance), while many,
>many
>non-Americans I have met (in person, on media and on the net) proclaim
>themselves as soap-box experts on the United States, its people, its
>culture, and its policies (belligerant ignorance). We are ignorant of
>others, and don't often try to feign otherwise (since for the most part
>we
>don't care that we are ignorant). Many others (Europeans in particular,
>if
>I may be so bold) are just as ignorant of us, but very often pretend to
>be
>knowledgable. I'm not sure which is worse. Assuredly, both conditions
>are
>very bad.
>
>Generally, and relating directly back to my original post in this
>thread,
>out of sight, out of mind. Americans mostly don't care about the rest
>of
>the world and wish foreigners would just bloody well quit hassling us.
>But,
>then, nobody else seems to give a rip about what we really think or are
>trying to accomplish either, so the feeling is mutual. A lot of
>misunderstanding comes from that situation--and then buildings start
>blowing
>up.
>
>~g
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.317 / Virus Database: 176 - Release Date: 1/21/2002
>
of disputatious democracy compared to duplicitous democracy.
Chauvinism is the conceit that out-viles all the rest for it leads to
terrible depredations against those who disagree.
Comfort food of the mind and heart kills more innocents than
any upfront warlike aggressions.
In design terms, which is what this discussion is about, refusing
to accept responsibility for the adverse consequences of your desires
and their fulfillment is the drug designers are addicted to and push
upon others who disdain willful crippling of oneself.
Design discourse is seldom modest, fair, tolerant and unaggressive,
and it is that way for the same reasons the military and governments
cannot last if they do not do dirty work for their clients, in particular
to never tell the truth of what they do and the perquisites they
enjoy for the self-serving deception long institutionalized in
civilization, in particular in the promulgation of one's own civlized
superiority to one's distanced victims -- religious, cultural, military.
Technology is a superior tool for distancing responsibility once
ruled by faith, then intellect, then faux democracy, then capitalism
and anti-capitalisms, then the media, then to hell with it, just nuke
the disobedient heathens, as Muschamp, in the spirit of when
all bribes fail, go with PJ's confessional Chauvinisme, to promote
his half dozen unisex Lolitas.
At 07:51 PM 1/24/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Clever, very clever, now that I read this again, but two questions, in
>the same language minus the sugar coating:
>
>One, why should one give a damn about whatever it is that Americans are
>trying to accomplish at home?
>
>Two, foreigners seem to be hassling Americans because Americans hassle
>them at home, so the ball is in the American's court as of now -- they
>quit, the rest quits and everybody happily goes home.
>
>Buildings get blown up because the Americans went to Afghanistan in the
>first place to hassle the soviets and left a mess behind, and they went
>in a foul mood remembering the way their asses were kicked in Vietnam
>(another place Americans went hassling people) and now the same guys who
>got walloped in Vietnam (and cuckolded by the Chinese) are back in seat
>and they want to hassle some more. So things would just work out if
>Americans said sorry for hassling everybody and sorry for all those
>massacres and genocide and sorry for being the most destructive nation
>in history and sorry for double-speak, because everybody will then just
>say apologies accepted, and don't hassle us again, please, and can we be
>nice to one another now?
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Basic and applied design (Art and Architecture)
>[mailto:DESIGN-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ronald Evitts
>Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 5:40 AM
>To: DESIGN-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: nuts or huts !
>
>well said!
>
>RONALD EVITTS ARCHITECT
>1201 Broadway, Room 503
>New York, NY 10001-5405
>
>212-679-7050 tel
>212-679-7058 fax
>revitts@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Basic and applied design (Art and Architecture)
>[mailto:DESIGN-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Gregory Wharton
>Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 7:34 PM
>To: DESIGN-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: nuts or huts !
>
>
>Derek,
>
>I never suggested that the ignorance of others' perspectives does not go
>both ways. Americans are, by and large, shockingly ignorant of the rest
>of
>the world--much to our detriment. But, the rest of the world is equally
>or
>even more ignorant of us. This is what I have been trying to point out
>here.
>
>The primary difference is: most Americans don't even pretend to know
>that
>much about the rest of the world (complacent ignorance), while many,
>many
>non-Americans I have met (in person, on media and on the net) proclaim
>themselves as soap-box experts on the United States, its people, its
>culture, and its policies (belligerant ignorance). We are ignorant of
>others, and don't often try to feign otherwise (since for the most part
>we
>don't care that we are ignorant). Many others (Europeans in particular,
>if
>I may be so bold) are just as ignorant of us, but very often pretend to
>be
>knowledgable. I'm not sure which is worse. Assuredly, both conditions
>are
>very bad.
>
>Generally, and relating directly back to my original post in this
>thread,
>out of sight, out of mind. Americans mostly don't care about the rest
>of
>the world and wish foreigners would just bloody well quit hassling us.
>But,
>then, nobody else seems to give a rip about what we really think or are
>trying to accomplish either, so the feeling is mutual. A lot of
>misunderstanding comes from that situation--and then buildings start
>blowing
>up.
>
>~g
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.317 / Virus Database: 176 - Release Date: 1/21/2002
>