-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]Namens michaelP
Verzonden: woensdag 8 september 2004 18:04
Aan: heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Onderwerp: Re: lying
Rene wrote:
> It's absolutely vital to stick to the theme of ontological lying.
> The idea that one could be, of oneself, capable of truth, and able
> to surpass lying, seems only acceptable to the last-minute-subjectivity,
> one sees at work indifferently whether in politics, economics or
> philosophy.
Rene, in what way can "ontological lying" be thematised without necessarily
lying about it (since, perhaps, it is not a topicalisable thing or
theme...)?
Michael, your way of putting it shows its own viewlessness.
It's putting things thus, that one cannot get out.
Meanwhile getting out might be surprisingly easy: a decision.
Pro truth as aletheia, contra truth as mere verifiability, which
is just a lie, and can only lead to more lie.
One gotta choose HERE, Michael, and if you don't, like Anthony
didn't want, there's going to be a question, why not.
>
> The current and ongoing bloody lies, that are at the base of
> international relations, grant a chance to take an essential
> mendacity into view, that is responsible for the filthy spectacle
> of the last 100 years of world politics.
>
> Would it all be all-too-human greed and deceit, then all these
> massacres remain without meaning, while serious undertakings,
> investigating the relation of technology, terror and truth, might
> still shed a meaningful light on them.
And what might this 'meaning behind the moaning' [line from one of my
somgs... sorry] this meaning of utter brutalising violence, er, be, pray?
You don't WANT it to have meaning? Then it is perfect food for the
commemoration industry: the even making less of the meaningless.
You think that the Persian wars, or Caesar's wars, are without
meaning, just because of the blood?
>
> Crying with the children is just crying with the wolves, and
> only serves their purposes.
Can one not cry then anyway?
But this is a philosophical list.
The people who committed the massacre (whether
of innocents or not) had a choice
Did they? A lot of things have preceded, Michael, which you leave out.
Then your moment comes, and suddenly Chechenyans become moral
agents like in our philosophy books. Reality is not at all like that.
to either do their dirty deed or not. They
chose violence, and a violence that achieved nothing but the obliteration of
small and larger humans. Their 'cause' has surely suffered, and will
obviously suffer further violent consequences and I can not believe that
such consequences were not equally obvious to these slimeball murderers.
Can you not simply cry anyway for these poor victims? Agreed it's not good
enough just to cry and ask as to the end of such cycles of revenge and
violence, when one is pursuing some kind of truth, but a moment of sheer
anti-exuberance is not at all falling into the dirty paws of the "wolves",
surely?
Sure it does. I want to be clear: what you're doing here is playing with victims
yourself, you're just using them for your purpose: to stay out, to not choose,
to not take responsability. Just like Anthony: using Heidegger against Heidegger.
Now there's maybe still a chance to get to the bottom, but in 5 or 10 years the
bloodshed can be already so gigantic, that your self-fulfilling prophecy case
will apply. We will be responsible, though, whatever the excuses.
>
> The Asians, while in principle not capable of fathoming global,
> eveninglandish mendacity, are working hard to see clearer.
> They won't overcome Western superiority - technology+lies - ,
> but their analyses are refreshing, compared to modern western
> scholasticism.
Give us some refreshing examples of such analyses then, or are you just
celebrating with other wolves.
I have named the tigers of the Asian Times more than once here, but i use this
opportunity for one more time praising their reporting, which remains loyal
to itself, something our lying food for obesives has far left behind.
rene
mP
>
> rdb
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