Frank,
I appreciate your comments. Design-L would have benefited by your
contribution, and as a fellow architect with 40 years exerience I know
it's hard to get architects to agree on much of anything except that
fees are too low and the profession gets too little respect, along with
that homicial/suicidal lament that other architects are a problem.
Design-L goes through phases, sometimes goofy, sometimes serious,
and now and then somebody takes time to submit an excellent
message. Bitching is the most common behavior and in that most
of us agree with you. We'd all like to find a list that meets our
expectations. So far no luck. Perhaps you would like to set up
such a list. If you do send an announcement to Design-L.
Moderation is controversial around the Net, as you must know.
When it is done to satisfy a few authoritarians, others bitch
endlessly about what the censors leave out. In fact, moderation
destroys more lists by limiting the range of content, than any
other single cause, except perhaps lack of participation by
list subscribers. So there will be no moderation on Design-L
for it was set up to get away from professional closed
mindedness. AIA-crippled pray it will never be.
To be sure, the moderated advocates are deliriously happy
that their views are the only ones they see. As some designers
adore seeing only their own kind of AIA-mandated ugliness.
When you get time to make a contribution of the sort you would
like others to make please re-subscribe and do you duty as an
experienced professional and join the fray. Don't expect pats
on the back for it though. Nobody is going to to your brain work
for you on the Net or off. Now I know architects are notoriously
lazy in the brain game, but a few get off their asses and think
rather than bitch and spin tales about what their long experience
has taught them.
Experience sucks, says a guy overloaded with it, and there is
nothing worse except professional practice where you get
away with peddling willful ignorance.
Wow, this is more fun than hearing consultants and clients
and co-workers bitch about my failures and goofiness.
At 08:51 AM 12/3/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Thanks. I appreciated the chance to be on a national design listserv for
>architects but it has been far too academic and dominated too much by a
>small group of insiders who in my opinion used it for too personal a level
>of opinions and discussions; many of them frivolous and just plain silly. I
>belong to over a dozen other listservs and usually a moderator steps in and
>tells them it would be more appropriate for them to hold these back and
>forth conversations between themselves via private email rather than
>repeatedly submit them to hundreds of listserv subscribers. The list content
>really unfortunately is not very applicable (in my personal opinion as a
>registered architect for 27 years) to any serious application of practical
>architecture and should not be sub titled a list for "applied" architecture.
>
>I would appreciate it if you could tell me the address of any serious
>technically oriented architectural listservs. THANKS, FRANK
>
>Frank M. Kutlak R.A.
>Project Officer -Design & Construction
>The Louis Stokes Laboratories / Building 50
>National Institutes of Health - Bethesda Maryland
>Office - Building 3, Room 222
>Phone (301)-402-3692 Fax (301)-496-0326
>Pager (202)-313-7012 Email: kutlakf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
><mailto:kutlakf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Building 50 website http://des.od.nih.gov/building_50
><http://des.od.nih.gov/building_50>
>Home Phone (301) 482-1410
>Home Email: kutlakf@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kutlakf@xxxxxxxxx>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: John Young [mailto:jya@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
>Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 11:29 AM
>To: Kutlak, Frank (OD/ORS)
>Subject: RE: unsubscribe
>
>
>Frank,
>
>Your previous address has been unsubscribed, copy of message
>below. You may receive the same message if it is forwarded to
>your current address as list mail appears to have been.
>
>If you continue to receive list mail let me know.
>
>Regards,
>
>John Young
>
>-----
>
>Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 08:29:17 -0500
>From: "L-Soft list server at LISTS.PSU.EDU (1.8d)"
> <LISTSERV@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Your removal from the DESIGN-L list
>To: kutlakf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>Mon, 3 Dec 2001 08:29:17
>
>You have been removed from the DESIGN-L list (Basic and applied design
>(Art and Architecture)) by John Young <jya@xxxxxxxxxxxx>.
>
I appreciate your comments. Design-L would have benefited by your
contribution, and as a fellow architect with 40 years exerience I know
it's hard to get architects to agree on much of anything except that
fees are too low and the profession gets too little respect, along with
that homicial/suicidal lament that other architects are a problem.
Design-L goes through phases, sometimes goofy, sometimes serious,
and now and then somebody takes time to submit an excellent
message. Bitching is the most common behavior and in that most
of us agree with you. We'd all like to find a list that meets our
expectations. So far no luck. Perhaps you would like to set up
such a list. If you do send an announcement to Design-L.
Moderation is controversial around the Net, as you must know.
When it is done to satisfy a few authoritarians, others bitch
endlessly about what the censors leave out. In fact, moderation
destroys more lists by limiting the range of content, than any
other single cause, except perhaps lack of participation by
list subscribers. So there will be no moderation on Design-L
for it was set up to get away from professional closed
mindedness. AIA-crippled pray it will never be.
To be sure, the moderated advocates are deliriously happy
that their views are the only ones they see. As some designers
adore seeing only their own kind of AIA-mandated ugliness.
When you get time to make a contribution of the sort you would
like others to make please re-subscribe and do you duty as an
experienced professional and join the fray. Don't expect pats
on the back for it though. Nobody is going to to your brain work
for you on the Net or off. Now I know architects are notoriously
lazy in the brain game, but a few get off their asses and think
rather than bitch and spin tales about what their long experience
has taught them.
Experience sucks, says a guy overloaded with it, and there is
nothing worse except professional practice where you get
away with peddling willful ignorance.
Wow, this is more fun than hearing consultants and clients
and co-workers bitch about my failures and goofiness.
At 08:51 AM 12/3/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Thanks. I appreciated the chance to be on a national design listserv for
>architects but it has been far too academic and dominated too much by a
>small group of insiders who in my opinion used it for too personal a level
>of opinions and discussions; many of them frivolous and just plain silly. I
>belong to over a dozen other listservs and usually a moderator steps in and
>tells them it would be more appropriate for them to hold these back and
>forth conversations between themselves via private email rather than
>repeatedly submit them to hundreds of listserv subscribers. The list content
>really unfortunately is not very applicable (in my personal opinion as a
>registered architect for 27 years) to any serious application of practical
>architecture and should not be sub titled a list for "applied" architecture.
>
>I would appreciate it if you could tell me the address of any serious
>technically oriented architectural listservs. THANKS, FRANK
>
>Frank M. Kutlak R.A.
>Project Officer -Design & Construction
>The Louis Stokes Laboratories / Building 50
>National Institutes of Health - Bethesda Maryland
>Office - Building 3, Room 222
>Phone (301)-402-3692 Fax (301)-496-0326
>Pager (202)-313-7012 Email: kutlakf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
><mailto:kutlakf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Building 50 website http://des.od.nih.gov/building_50
><http://des.od.nih.gov/building_50>
>Home Phone (301) 482-1410
>Home Email: kutlakf@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kutlakf@xxxxxxxxx>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: John Young [mailto:jya@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
>Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 11:29 AM
>To: Kutlak, Frank (OD/ORS)
>Subject: RE: unsubscribe
>
>
>Frank,
>
>Your previous address has been unsubscribed, copy of message
>below. You may receive the same message if it is forwarded to
>your current address as list mail appears to have been.
>
>If you continue to receive list mail let me know.
>
>Regards,
>
>John Young
>
>-----
>
>Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 08:29:17 -0500
>From: "L-Soft list server at LISTS.PSU.EDU (1.8d)"
> <LISTSERV@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Your removal from the DESIGN-L list
>To: kutlakf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>Mon, 3 Dec 2001 08:29:17
>
>You have been removed from the DESIGN-L list (Basic and applied design
>(Art and Architecture)) by John Young <jya@xxxxxxxxxxxx>.
>