Writing before breakfast, please excuse any errors. I say let
the political stuff burn out. Thia was a painful election for
many of us, so we feel the need to express our distress and hurt.
It might take awhile for all of it to really heal.
PLEASE OH PLEASE AVOID MODERATION PROGRAM ande ALL THAT FORA
STUFF. THOSE ARE A REAL PAIN. THEY ALSO LOCK YOU INTO THE LATEST
AND GREATEST. MORE THOUGHTFUL RESPONSE FOLLOWS BELOW.
This is a high quality list, one of the best that I have been on
over my 25+ years on the net, and having been a moderator I agree.
I fear one's personality jumps into too easily. Nor I am about to
leave the list. Sounds like leaving your lover after a couple of
bad weeks or something.
I have found things here that I haven't found elsewhere, in fact
this list has encouraged me to go bouncing back out into my
pecualir variant of "Architectural Photography with People in
Structures and area and using them. I had abandoned it because
I could make money as a professional photographer but never
enough to pay regularly Northern California rents.
I just was taught by fussy maiden aunts not to force my views
on others and not to talk in church meeting about the cute gril
I saw and what I hoped we would do together. However, the use of
space is a big in such activities. I did do these things in an
obscure mag called "Loud Paper". But is was about the architecture
in a certain dying industrial city in the Upper Ohio Valley and
the huge smokeless tobacco factory behind where I lived.
I have no idea if LOUD PAPER still exists and publishes.
I'll send them a note. Mimi seemed pretty bright and interesting
and the thought oF INCREASING THE VOLUME of discussions about
architecture and what you can that whole thing about how people
use space and buildings is a great idea.
I am waiting for the politics to decline and I can certainly
moderate what I want to read myself. SO no moderation please.
PUMP UP THE ARCHITECTURE VOLUME AND KEEP PUTTING IN THOSE NEAt
1960s BUILDING PICTURES. I AM WRITING THAT TOWN TO ASK THEM NOT
TO TEAR THAT BUILDING DOWN.
Have Fun,
Sends Steve
Below is letter to Mimi Zeigler of the LOUD PAPER.
It is design-L that is getting me to come out of my shell
and start doing architectural photography again. I used to
do a lot. Good God I am in Love with the Modern World, with
degitial technology I would have not lost good work in floods
and personal disasters.
Letter to Mimi Zeigler and the LOUD PAPER folks
Hey Mimi Z et al;.
I did that weird thing about Wheeling, WV; I am thinking about tackling
Watsonville, CA where I know liive. But I like the loud papoer. Do I need
to write another long letter and article or send you bucks to keep up my sub.
When I was in WV you kept sending me stuff and I liked it....so I'd like it
it to keep going. What can I do to make this happen. Since m
My street address: (where I reside ) is: Steve Kudlak
117 West Beach
St. #5
Watsonville,
CA 95076-4557
POBX ADDR: Stephen (Steve) Kudlak
POBX 2005
Watsonville,
CA
95077-2005
My phone is (831)786-8643 : N.B. I am moderately mobility impaired, awful
on bad
days/weeks, negliable on good days.
Have Fun,
Sends STeve
P.S. I have to like on $872.00/mo plus some hornoraria for teaching kids
atmospheric
science. Now Meteorology and Architercture/Buildings there is an
interesting sunject !!!
There is an interesting topic!!! ANyway I can try to send money
but how many 15 buck
subs I can chunk out in a month is something I have to be
careful. I have been sick and
under the weather with MSRA which by the way I got because I
live in a rezzie hotel
(another arch subject in itself). iI really like those portable
MAX HQ cameras for
much photography. I had a moderately good digital camera but I
droppedf my back pack
one day and that was that and there is no $250 to $1000.00 to
replace that. But that
was what I did all Industial Arch Photos on which were sigh
lost in Ohio! Glarg!
Anyway I should run next door and get a burrito. I live in the
"Anglo/Mex" neighborhood
down here ....speak Spanish and ;live cheaply with friendly
people.
There is this neat list called Desgin-L gently watched over by Howard and
John Young of
Cryptome and is very good. and has lots of pictures of building and good
discussions although
lots of people are in a tizzy over poilitics right now but that will
probably calm down.
I am arguing against moderation as no matter how careful one is one's
views creep in.
Anyway it is design-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx and is worth a look.
> Howard seems determined to force his political agenda onto
> Design-L while excluding those of others. See messages
> below which are news to me.
>
> Howard originated this list, and for many years, at least from
> 1994 until he asked me to serve as administator, he allowed
> a wide range of opinions to be posted, indeed it was that courage
> in the face of periodic calls for "moderation," -- that is, attempts
> by a few to have Howard favor their positions -- that most
> impressed me about his stewardship.
>
> To be sure during those periods a bountiful amount of other
> discussion occurred. The comparatively sparse amount of
> postings now could accentuate those which some may think
> are too "political." But those dry periods have also occurred
> before.
>
> Moderation all too often inhibits enlightenig discourse, based
> on the experience of other lists, and fosters a ghetto
> mentality. That is happening the US now and needs very
> much to be resisted.
>
> It would be helpful for subscribers to offer their views on
> moderation before it is imposed for a singular political
> purpose. No offense meant to Howard, for he has shown
> exemplary generosity heretofore and will surely do so
> in the future.
>
> At the present time there are two list administrators, Howard
> and me, after Howard returned from an extended hiatus. Howard
> may still have the power to close the list, I'm not sure of what
> his relationship to PSU is.
>
> Political debate here is encouraged to flower, not wither.
>
>
> -----
>
> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:45:47 -0500
> To: "Howard Ray Lawrence" <howardl@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> From: Bill Verity <whv@xxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Moderation Program ?
> Cc: jya@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> :
> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new
> X-ELNK-AV: 0
>
> We could make the list "edited" and make John and you the editors. Then
> whenever anyone would send to the list, the mail would go to you and John
> and either could approve it. Mail directly from you or John would just be
> posted without approval.
>
> At 10:21 AM -0800 11/9/04, Howard Ray Lawrence wrote
>>Hi Bill:
>>
>>Yes, the list is being misused by persons with political agendas.
>>Design List is for art and architecture, basic and applied design.
>>What do you have there for moderation of the list?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Howard
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Bill Verity" <<mailto:whv@xxxxxxx>whv@xxxxxxx>
>>To: "Howard Ray Lawrence"
>> <<mailto:howardl@xxxxxxxxxxx>howardl@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Cc: "Howard Ray Lawrence"
>> <<mailto:howardl@xxxxxxxxxxx>howardl@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 8:50 AM
>>Subject: Re: Moderation Program ?
>>
>> > Are you having problems? Looks like it would cost you about
>> $10/month.
>>>
>>> At 4:01 AM -0800 11/6/04, Howard Ray Lawrence wrote:
>>>>http://www.listfilter.com/moderate.htm#bad_people
>>>>
>>>>Hi Bill:
>>>>What do you think of this program for moderation of Design List?
>>>>
>> >>Howard
>
>
> --
> Bill Verity - 814-865-4758 Fax: 814-863-7049
> Listserv Administrator
> 215A Computer Building - Information Technology Services, Penn State
> University
> At the office - on my Mac, of course ;-)
>
> --
> The Design-L list for art and architecture, since 1992...
> To subscribe, send mailto:design-l-subscribe-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.
> To signoff, send mailto:design-l-unsubscribe-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.
> Visit archives: http://lists.psu.edu/archives/design-l.html
>
--
The Design-L list for art and architecture, since 1992...
To subscribe, send mailto:design-l-subscribe-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.
To signoff, send mailto:design-l-unsubscribe-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.
Visit archives: http://lists.psu.edu/archives/design-l.html
the political stuff burn out. Thia was a painful election for
many of us, so we feel the need to express our distress and hurt.
It might take awhile for all of it to really heal.
PLEASE OH PLEASE AVOID MODERATION PROGRAM ande ALL THAT FORA
STUFF. THOSE ARE A REAL PAIN. THEY ALSO LOCK YOU INTO THE LATEST
AND GREATEST. MORE THOUGHTFUL RESPONSE FOLLOWS BELOW.
This is a high quality list, one of the best that I have been on
over my 25+ years on the net, and having been a moderator I agree.
I fear one's personality jumps into too easily. Nor I am about to
leave the list. Sounds like leaving your lover after a couple of
bad weeks or something.
I have found things here that I haven't found elsewhere, in fact
this list has encouraged me to go bouncing back out into my
pecualir variant of "Architectural Photography with People in
Structures and area and using them. I had abandoned it because
I could make money as a professional photographer but never
enough to pay regularly Northern California rents.
I just was taught by fussy maiden aunts not to force my views
on others and not to talk in church meeting about the cute gril
I saw and what I hoped we would do together. However, the use of
space is a big in such activities. I did do these things in an
obscure mag called "Loud Paper". But is was about the architecture
in a certain dying industrial city in the Upper Ohio Valley and
the huge smokeless tobacco factory behind where I lived.
I have no idea if LOUD PAPER still exists and publishes.
I'll send them a note. Mimi seemed pretty bright and interesting
and the thought oF INCREASING THE VOLUME of discussions about
architecture and what you can that whole thing about how people
use space and buildings is a great idea.
I am waiting for the politics to decline and I can certainly
moderate what I want to read myself. SO no moderation please.
PUMP UP THE ARCHITECTURE VOLUME AND KEEP PUTTING IN THOSE NEAt
1960s BUILDING PICTURES. I AM WRITING THAT TOWN TO ASK THEM NOT
TO TEAR THAT BUILDING DOWN.
Have Fun,
Sends Steve
Below is letter to Mimi Zeigler of the LOUD PAPER.
It is design-L that is getting me to come out of my shell
and start doing architectural photography again. I used to
do a lot. Good God I am in Love with the Modern World, with
degitial technology I would have not lost good work in floods
and personal disasters.
Letter to Mimi Zeigler and the LOUD PAPER folks
Hey Mimi Z et al;.
I did that weird thing about Wheeling, WV; I am thinking about tackling
Watsonville, CA where I know liive. But I like the loud papoer. Do I need
to write another long letter and article or send you bucks to keep up my sub.
When I was in WV you kept sending me stuff and I liked it....so I'd like it
it to keep going. What can I do to make this happen. Since m
My street address: (where I reside ) is: Steve Kudlak
117 West Beach
St. #5
Watsonville,
CA 95076-4557
POBX ADDR: Stephen (Steve) Kudlak
POBX 2005
Watsonville,
CA
95077-2005
My phone is (831)786-8643 : N.B. I am moderately mobility impaired, awful
on bad
days/weeks, negliable on good days.
Have Fun,
Sends STeve
P.S. I have to like on $872.00/mo plus some hornoraria for teaching kids
atmospheric
science. Now Meteorology and Architercture/Buildings there is an
interesting sunject !!!
There is an interesting topic!!! ANyway I can try to send money
but how many 15 buck
subs I can chunk out in a month is something I have to be
careful. I have been sick and
under the weather with MSRA which by the way I got because I
live in a rezzie hotel
(another arch subject in itself). iI really like those portable
MAX HQ cameras for
much photography. I had a moderately good digital camera but I
droppedf my back pack
one day and that was that and there is no $250 to $1000.00 to
replace that. But that
was what I did all Industial Arch Photos on which were sigh
lost in Ohio! Glarg!
Anyway I should run next door and get a burrito. I live in the
"Anglo/Mex" neighborhood
down here ....speak Spanish and ;live cheaply with friendly
people.
There is this neat list called Desgin-L gently watched over by Howard and
John Young of
Cryptome and is very good. and has lots of pictures of building and good
discussions although
lots of people are in a tizzy over poilitics right now but that will
probably calm down.
I am arguing against moderation as no matter how careful one is one's
views creep in.
Anyway it is design-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx and is worth a look.
> Howard seems determined to force his political agenda onto
> Design-L while excluding those of others. See messages
> below which are news to me.
>
> Howard originated this list, and for many years, at least from
> 1994 until he asked me to serve as administator, he allowed
> a wide range of opinions to be posted, indeed it was that courage
> in the face of periodic calls for "moderation," -- that is, attempts
> by a few to have Howard favor their positions -- that most
> impressed me about his stewardship.
>
> To be sure during those periods a bountiful amount of other
> discussion occurred. The comparatively sparse amount of
> postings now could accentuate those which some may think
> are too "political." But those dry periods have also occurred
> before.
>
> Moderation all too often inhibits enlightenig discourse, based
> on the experience of other lists, and fosters a ghetto
> mentality. That is happening the US now and needs very
> much to be resisted.
>
> It would be helpful for subscribers to offer their views on
> moderation before it is imposed for a singular political
> purpose. No offense meant to Howard, for he has shown
> exemplary generosity heretofore and will surely do so
> in the future.
>
> At the present time there are two list administrators, Howard
> and me, after Howard returned from an extended hiatus. Howard
> may still have the power to close the list, I'm not sure of what
> his relationship to PSU is.
>
> Political debate here is encouraged to flower, not wither.
>
>
> -----
>
> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:45:47 -0500
> To: "Howard Ray Lawrence" <howardl@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> From: Bill Verity <whv@xxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Moderation Program ?
> Cc: jya@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> :
> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new
> X-ELNK-AV: 0
>
> We could make the list "edited" and make John and you the editors. Then
> whenever anyone would send to the list, the mail would go to you and John
> and either could approve it. Mail directly from you or John would just be
> posted without approval.
>
> At 10:21 AM -0800 11/9/04, Howard Ray Lawrence wrote
>>Hi Bill:
>>
>>Yes, the list is being misused by persons with political agendas.
>>Design List is for art and architecture, basic and applied design.
>>What do you have there for moderation of the list?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Howard
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Bill Verity" <<mailto:whv@xxxxxxx>whv@xxxxxxx>
>>To: "Howard Ray Lawrence"
>> <<mailto:howardl@xxxxxxxxxxx>howardl@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Cc: "Howard Ray Lawrence"
>> <<mailto:howardl@xxxxxxxxxxx>howardl@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 8:50 AM
>>Subject: Re: Moderation Program ?
>>
>> > Are you having problems? Looks like it would cost you about
>> $10/month.
>>>
>>> At 4:01 AM -0800 11/6/04, Howard Ray Lawrence wrote:
>>>>http://www.listfilter.com/moderate.htm#bad_people
>>>>
>>>>Hi Bill:
>>>>What do you think of this program for moderation of Design List?
>>>>
>> >>Howard
>
>
> --
> Bill Verity - 814-865-4758 Fax: 814-863-7049
> Listserv Administrator
> 215A Computer Building - Information Technology Services, Penn State
> University
> At the office - on my Mac, of course ;-)
>
> --
> The Design-L list for art and architecture, since 1992...
> To subscribe, send mailto:design-l-subscribe-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.
> To signoff, send mailto:design-l-unsubscribe-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.
> Visit archives: http://lists.psu.edu/archives/design-l.html
>
--
The Design-L list for art and architecture, since 1992...
To subscribe, send mailto:design-l-subscribe-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.
To signoff, send mailto:design-l-unsubscribe-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.
Visit archives: http://lists.psu.edu/archives/design-l.html