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Van: owner-heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]Namens
GEVANS613@xxxxxxx
Verzonden: woensdag 20 oktober 2004 13:47
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Onderwerp: Re: anti or antique heidegger?
In a message dated 20/10/2004 10:49:14 GMT Standard Time,
R.B.M.deBakker@xxxxxx writes:
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Van: owner-heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]Namens
GEVANS613@xxxxxxx
Verzonden: dinsdag 19 oktober 2004 20:18
Aan: heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
CC: GEVANS613@xxxxxxx
Onderwerp: Re: anti or antique heidegger?
In a message dated 19/10/2004 16:59:39 GMT Standard Time,
R.B.M.deBakker@xxxxxx writes:
Here 'is' the preying, the nachstellen of a subject, but without, as in
Nietzsche, the obliged reflection.
Jud:
Ooops! When I read this I naturally assumed you were addressing Heidegger's
habit of preying on his colleagues — you know the way he hounded them
behind
his back if they were socialists, or were too friendly with Jews {specially
ones called Fraenkel] and reported them to the Gestapo. Then I realised
that
you were referring to me preying upon the preyer. I thought it was strange
behaviour from you and was almost relieved to discover it was ME you where
attacking for predation and not the P of N himself.
Rene:
Well Jud, i was trying to explain that really i did not attack you, insofar
you are what you think you are: the existent entity Jud, who is anyway as
little reachable as other constructs like atoms etc. I just wanted - that is,
you asked for it - to show to you the consequences of your own position re
predication and subjectivity, consequences that undermine completely your
ongoing hate campaign, esp. the foundation of it. The last thing you can
replie is, to hell with all foundation
Jud:
OK - I'll do a deal with you, or it can be a unilateral agreement on my
behalf.
After this particular message, I won't mention Nazism or Hitler in any form
whatsoever for a month, [until the 20th of November,
if you agree to stop calling anyone who doesn't agree with your version of
Heideggerianism a liar or a
faggot for the same period? I plan to do it anyway, whether you do or not.
Very well. Of course ontological lying cannot be evaded, like your
"transcendental evil". But what we can evade, is quarrel about
exactly who and what etc. I think, your position is only getting
stronger, when you're sleepy reason doesn't create monsters where
there are none.
Rene:
It's just done, and this machination needs the continuing holocaust
Erlebnis for its legitimation.
Jud:
I don't NEED the idea of an ongoing holocaust, it' just an added
availableness thoughtfully provided by the P of N
as a convenient big stick to beat him. If he hadn't been such an idiot and
involved himself with the men in jackboots
there would be no criticism.
Rene:
You wore a uniform, prob. with boots too, that was far more bloody than
the 1933/34 SA uniform, you pledged allegiance to a country and to leaders
that
after just blaming others continued their own filthy game in the Middle East,
that has led up to today's new wars and new humiliations.
You were with guys that shot little boys for stealing their tobacco. Don't
come
lecturing then others who were in far more decent circumstances while you're
standing kneedeep in the shit yourself. Or is that the reason....?
Jud:
Yes you are quite right - I was an uneducated 17-year old slum kid who
didn't know
what it was all about. Heidegger [by 1933] was a highly educated scholar of
history and philosophy,who had been profoundly
involved for 12-years in his younger days with a religious organisation
which ostensible preached love towards mankind, etc.
but what if you wanted to get out of it?
He was a man who had a deep understanding of economics in the sense that he
was able to speak at some length on public radio in support of German
withdrawal from the League of Nations and the iniquity of the reparations which
crippled post W.W.I Germany.
That is an ENTIRELY different scenario from mine - almost still a child
joining the army not to fight against Arabs and perpetuate British Imperialism,
but like many other slum-kids using it [and going away to sea] as an escape
from the misery of Liverpool slum life.
Trouble with you Rene - you don't think things through - you lack empathy -
the ability to imagine what the lives of others are ACTUALLY LIKE.
You might be right, and i still learning. But would you say you have done the same,
use your imagination, in Heidegger's case? Beginning with his being UNfit for a
*really* vital war of his fatherland, the shame that went along with it, for instance
in contact with men like Ernst Juenger, who, with 17 years, was in the trenches?
That his physical weakness was a result of the work pressure and food shortage in
that same christian foundation?
And is it so hard to imagine the will to get out of the unsalutary mess of the after
war politics? And work toward a new Germany, while NOBODY wanted the Weimar republic?
Well i can go on, but i won't now. What it was actually NOT like, was that on the
right were the righteous, and on the left the scum. Which seems to be your theology.
Jud [earlier]
If he had just kept stumn and not allowed
himself to get involved [claimed to be lost in his own little a-political
world
of the Greek incipience) he's have become the Great hero of western
philosophy, admired by all [even by those who rejected his meaningless
metaphysicalities] Result he is loathed by all — even his supporters
acknowledge that he was
a lying turd.
Rene:
I'll go on bringing the turd home where he belongs. Everything
philosophical he brought in
those early days, remained without effect, and the Greeks were to the
Germans what they were
for the English or Americans: nice history . As soon as he found out that
this revolution
was already spoiled, he quit.
Jud:
No, Rene - he was forced out because of his colleagues rejection of his
dictatorial attitude.
The *I quit* excuse doesn't ring true - it stinks to high heaven.
Your statement stinks, not mine.
Rene:
And told, quite brave actually, what he thought publicly in
lectures.
Jud:
Textual evidence please!
You've had enough. Why don't you read the lectures from 1934 on?
It's there, but people like you keep it away.
Rene:
I'm beginning to doubt your benevolence, dear Jud, for not being able to
recognise this
- you're just doing the lies again, but we've already given the mendacity
back to those responsible.
In this respect there can be nothing between us, and i've explained why:
you're driven again and
again into irrational (and scientifically unsound) assertions, let's call it
what it is: slander.
And that's what you show, on this point, and it's quite ugly, and i'll go on
advising you the best,
to stop this filth, and ask yourself why you are behaving exactly the way
you accuse Heidegger of.
Jud:
Slander is an abusive attack on a person's character or good name -
Heidegger DOESN'T HAVE a good name,
and his *character* is universally condemned [even by his mistress] as an
inveterate liar.
A man like that can't be *slandered* - he is beyond slander - a citizen of
the city of evil [as Luther might have said.]
More black/white theology.... Mere hate, Jud, can't make more of it.
Rene:
Esp. now that he thinks that the 'demise' of the Heidegger list is his
work.
Maybe it would
seem so, for instance if a poll would be held, but one immediately
recognizes the
same mechanism in all polls: the machination of will and widerwill.
Jud:
I don't need to try. It imploded from its own internal combustion. Anthony
and the Dark Stranger left because of you Rene not me.
There are so many varieties of Heideggerianism - it is like trying to coax
a
form of unity out of a pack of hyenas fighting over the kill.
Rene:
It's all right to attack hyena's, but not foxes. (see Hannah Arendt:
Heidegger the fox)
Jud:
Foxes - Hyenas what's the difference? Hyenas hunt in packs - Foxes hunt
alone.
Heidegger sometimes ran with the fascist hyenas and sometimes preyed alone
as a right-wing fox?
What's new? ;-)
Rene:
Short: one is enabled to see the role of the 'subject' — variously said-
inside the Gestell (a fully problematic title), its being used: the subject
has become Bestandstueck, piece of inventory. (and therefore not to be saved:
see below)
Jud :
For me Heidegger has ALWAYS been a Bestandstueck - Ein Pfand in einem
Spiel von Anti-Heidegger Schach, or convenient representative in my kampf
against transcendentalism and its accompanying evils.
Rene:
We're ALL Bestandstueck. Not because of Heidegger, but because of the
technological character of the world. Heidegger could be a big help in that respect,
and you are merely blackening him for silly personal reasons.
Grow up at last, man. It's never too late.
Jud:
The green movement doesn't need a Heidegger, it needs an anti-Heidegger,
because it is the transcendentalists [the Christian bigot Bush] who refuse to
sign the Tokyo agreement on the reduction of greenhouse gasses.
Maybe the idea that man can destroy the earth is as hybrid as the well-
mating hybris of science and religion.
The antiscientific wheeze and anti-technology con-trick is worthless hot
air, the men in white coats don't drop bombs or cut down trees it is the greedy
trannies who fall to their knees on Sunday and on Monday morning strap on
their helmets and go and bomb Baghdad or build a new smoke-belching factory. You
just don't geddit Rene. You are no doubt well-meaning, and I detect a warm
human being hiding behind your protective shell [I liked the blue-eyed
shore-dwellers and peasants] but you just haven't got the message that the trannies
are the despoilers of our world - not the scientists whose contracts they
obey.
Thanks to what could the first world war be the red line under Europe?
Not thanks to Christendom which *created* Europe, but thanks to a science
that already was inherently technology. They are still what is really happening,
and one look at the world can detect the dangers that threaten the masses that
live on it. Even these masses themselves have been ordered and produced by
technology. It's a perfect religion: there even are no heretics. The trans-
cendalist Arabs, you say? But they only appeared after endless humiliation,
not out of free will.
regards
rene
Regards,
Jud
Personal Website:
_http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/index.htm_
(http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/index.htm)
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