Rene talking to peep, sorry too much to read. This is interesting if I could
jump in and say that some people are kind of autonomy oriented and withdraw
into a hard shell that doesn't risk the pain that comes from being in a real
clearing exposed to outrage and humiliation. Instead of dealing with the
hard of work of being-with others some just withdraw into bunkers that are
essentially anti-social and others try to create bonds and build
relationships. It almost sounds really stupid to have to make these remarks
to intelligent people but they have to be made if one is interested in
building "increased movement solidarity". There are "measures" or at least a
know-how of this process. We have to listen to "common underlying patterns
that emerge" as possible jointures of agreement even if these remain vague
until they are brought out and made explicit as elements of what constitutes
membership. So in opposition to an autonomous singleton that is alienated a
member is someone who cares about bonds (and there is lots of ways to talk
about elements of relationships) and forming frienships and loves where
communicative exchange is founded on amorous-exchange and this is what you
struggle for if you are a real socialist. We are responsible to question our
own tendency towards autonomy which is not real freedom but the worst kind
of alienating and abstract cage making.
Hello Ariosto,
Autonomy (Kant) once was the self-laid fundament of the subject, freeing itself
from all heteronomy.
Assuming with you, that a couple of hundreds of years later, free subjectivity
has become a cage itself, one could plead for inter-subjectivity, as you seem to do.
But like metaphysics is still physics, also intersubjectivity is still subjectivity.
And believing that we escaped subjectivism via the other, we would only be deeper in
the cage, the hell, that now is the other. (Gesellschaft, society)
So again, i would say, the word as such says little, but a word only speaks in
an atmosphere, a not-subjective mood.
greetings Rene,
Intersubjective? no, I never use the word or talk about a new subject or a god unless of course it's a question of the abground of god or the godhead of god which as we know from schelling et al. is a question of... here, indeed, is the difficult thinking that tends to pause and become idle so to speak in its abiding dwelling before an enigma that gives it a while, allows thinking to take its time a move very very slowly. Are we rushing to any kind of conclusions Rene? Or is thinking here not opening itself up and becoming absorbed in the ambiance or atmosphere of a clearing... that is not-subjective mood but it is still a sense of wonder, no? I agree with you and some others that it is a question of the experience of the dissolution of subjectivity where the grasping of calculative thinking becomes suffering and what Heidegger describes as the sense of the abandonment of beings by being which strangely is also a sense of wonder is allowed to happen and that's, again, thinking as a kind of letting-go. We are guided by that which is withdrawing itself into concealment or the "charm of the ineffable" and that which is not something yet is also not nothing (...) and in so far as it points to a new beginning then the list becomes a new polis that guards and operates as a unifying center and facilitating context for the dissolution of subjectivity, a crucible which given completely arbitrary and ungrounded powers of designated nominator I will call PERSEPHONE. Sorry, I'm feeling a little impatient. The Intertextual Knot now is a forthcoming project under the radical research institute, list-city-state called Persephone -- This is the new home of our house language hippydi hip hop. I'm an artist and I'm here to be more of who and what I am and this is my other Ottawa, my Montreal, my Paris, my New York, my Tokyo, my Germania.... Just because I say "my" doesn't mean I'm being possessive but rather I recognize something that already has come to pass hinc et nunc. I am already *possessed* by an appropriative event (Ereignis). I have had enough of academic philosophy Rene and the type of men we both don't appreciate; and I'm going to go with the peep's lead and start writing an opera... it's a Greek romantic tragic-comedy in the tradition perhaps of Rabelais, eh? I'm tired of fighting and just getting too old for arguments that go nowhere. With you though I don't feel like I'm fighting but being challenged, yes, and learning also and getting motivated by the necessity of responding well. I have and I'm learning a lot on this list. This is an awesome online experience and culture. Thank you.
So all the drama happens in a list-polis called Persephone. A river runs through her...
I'm in a rush and have to go an yes we did have a very long conversation some years ago. Someday I am going to start editing our archival memory-- that should be lots of fun and probably enough to make anybody blush.
to be continued...
warm regards,
ariosto
And there's the trouble, because we can
convince ourselves of beautiful things and words, using the attunement that is
always there between people, one way or the other, without ever breaking through
the cage. On the contrary: we would then feel very comfortable inside this
intersubjective cage, and only feel alienated outside, in the wilderness, a prey
for all threats.
But that makes me think: didn't we already discuss the subjective dangers of and
for Dasein some years ago?
regards
rene
quiet group person,
ariosto
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