Dear Gita,
As always your point is very precise and insightful.
Unfortunately, like everything else, Information too
has become a valuable commodity to be traded, hoarded
or extracted from the ground by forcible means.
I equally detest the socialite gold-diggers /
publicity hounds who misuse RTI processes.
RTI is only the process of formalised Information
retrieval from bureaucratic labyrinths which would
otherwise not be accessible to the average joe or
student.
Just as a student ought not to crib that he is
required to "book" a reference journal from his
library, similarly a normal waiting period of 15 days
is not too bad for any formal process.
BTW: where have those 2 SPA boys disappeared off to?
Bad form boys! And what happened to Aruna and the
respectful emails I dutifully sent her?
Get used to RTI its here to stay, the DDA's and MoUDs
of this world will use every trick to stall and
distort it, but eventually their own Augean stables
will get washed out somewhat.
Insofar as students are concerned, I think
concessional photocopying charges could be considered
/ incorporated against a letter from their HOD.
You know my first RTI in 2003 simply asked the
Dy.Director of Education (South Zone) as how many
recognised Senior Secondary Schools there were in his
Division - and this got turned into some Big State
Secret. I wonder what the SPA boys asked, was it
something like - how many maternity hospitals are
there in Geeta Colony and how comparatively many are
there in Seelampur? Controversial stuff!
Sarbajit
--- Gita Dewan Verma <mpisgplanner@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> my point re RTI in this or discom case is only that
> purposes for which information is sought need to be
> distinguished. insufficient secondary data seriously
> hampers courses at school of planning. this is not
> so
> much about students right to info as about every
> one's
> responsibility to inform students. especially in
> view
> of the activist / glamorous / controversy
> connotations
> of use of RTI, i am acutely uncomfortable about
> accessing info for institutional academic purposes
> via
> RTI.
>
> --- sarbajit roy <sroy1947@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > Hi Prashant, Subhadeep,
> >
> > If the info u seek is normal uncontroversial
> > statistical stuff, simply go down to that office
> > again
> > and speak very politely to the peon(s) outside the
> > big
> > boss's office. He will direct you to the right
> > person
> > who will help you. Research the website of this
> > department first, very often a lot of valuable
> stuff
> > is tucked away behind deep links. Act
> knowledgeable
> > and brazen your way through. You will be surprised
> > how
> > often I extract information from even the most
> > notoriously secretive departments like this and I
> am
> > invariably asked "Sir which Department are you
> > from?"
> > for which a suitably vague and non-committal
> > response
> > is called for - like "Planning Department". Behave
> > like the Inspector General.
> >
> > Gita, Re: RTI and electricity data from Private
> > players etc, the new Central Act squarely
> addresses
> > this problem now. It's upto us responsible people
> to
> > now use this ACT with all its imperfections.
> >
> > BTW: Was out of town for a few days, how come
> > there's
> > nothing here about SC DMP remarks and SC Save
> Yamuna
> > Plan? Or do the have the clowns have to learn new
> > jokes?
> >
> > Sarbajit Roy
> >
> > --- Gita Dewan Verma <mpisgplanner@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Prashant, Subhadeep,
> > > Regardless of whether or not you feel up to
> > > exploring
> > > RTI procedures, please ask SPA authorities to
> > write
> > > to
> > > Delhi Govt and to concerned central ministries
> for
> > > separate procedure for access to information for
> > > purposes of studio-related work.
> > > You could also ask someone in faculty to take up
> > the
> > > impact on this of changing regimes (eg, students
> > > have
> > > been having trouble getting electricity
> > > infrastructure
> > > information since privatization). SPA could even
> > > provide inputs to authorities for prioritising
> > what
> > > needs to be available on their websites in
> spirit
> > of
> > > RTI w/o requiring proceeding by its letter.
> > > For the present studio-exercise, I suggest you
> > > request
> > > your HoD or Dean to call up the deptts that you
> > have
> > > had difficulties with and also give you a letter
> > of
> > > introduction for others that you will be
> visiting.
> > > all the best,
> > > Gita
> > >
> > >
> > > --- sarbajit roy <sroy1947@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dear Prashant, (and mpisg list)
> > > >
> > > > Sorry , I was out of delhi (away from the net)
> > and
> > > > cudnt reply earlier.
> > > >
> > > > Hi, with ref yr email below:-
> > > >
> > > > 1) It seems that DHS Karkadoom is processing
> > your
> > > > information as an application in Form A under
> > the
> > > > Delhi Right to Information Act 2002. YOU
> SHOULD
> > > > CONSIDER YOURSELF VERY LUCKY THAT THEY HAVE
> > > PROPERLY
> > > > ADVISED YOU TO APPLY IN FORM A.
> > > >
> > > > 2) The alternative would be to go to the High
> > > Court
> > > > or
> > > > some other court to get the information under
> a
> > > > court
> > > > order.
> > > >
> > > > 3) If the information sought is routine
> > > information
> > > > you will normally receive the information in
> 15
> > > > days.
> > > >
> > > > 4) If the information is tricky or
> controversial
> > > you
> > > > will not receive it all. Trust me ;-)
> > > >
> > > > 5) As per an office-order from the
> > > > Ministry/Department
> > > > of Administrative Reform,the fee of Rs. 25
> > (WHICH
> > > > YOU
> > > > ARE UNNECCESARILY CRIBBING ABOUT) entitles you
> > to
> > > > ask
> > > > 8 questions and 8 sub questions per question
> -->
> > > > This
> > > > effectively means 72 questions. However this
> is
> > > not
> > > > absolute and you can ask even 1000 questions
> for
> > > > Rs.25.
> > > >
> > > > 6) I hope that you have framed nice short and
> > > > specific
> > > > questions which can be answered in
> YES/NO/MAYBE
> > > > format.
> > > >
> > > > 7) If you dont want to pay Rs.5 per A4 sheet
> you
> > > can
> > > > adopt the following strategy.
> > > >
> > > > a) Ask to be allowed to inspect (this means to
> > > view
> > > > and take notes from) all the documents you
> > > require.
> > > > You can obtain the particular sheets of
> interest
> > > to
> > > > you by paying Rs.5 (this is a good device to
> > > getting
> > > > scammed by officers who will dump a whole load
> > of
> > > > garbage on you at Rs.5 per page)
> > > >
> > > > b) Frame the questions in a way that the
> answer
> > is
> > > > contained in the reply provided to you by the
> > > > Competent Authority. This is FREE.
> > > >
> > > > 8) I think you have been misinformed that
> > > > confidential
> > > > data cannot be given. Only a limited set of
> > > > information is excluded from purview of the
> ACT,
> > > and
> > > > these are specified in the ACT itself (section
> > > 6??)
> > > > and conform to the Constitutional exclusions
> > under
> > > > Article 19.
> > > >
> > > > 9) Make sure that that the information you
> seek
> > > > directly pertains to the Department of the
> > > Competent
>
=== message truncated ===
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
As always your point is very precise and insightful.
Unfortunately, like everything else, Information too
has become a valuable commodity to be traded, hoarded
or extracted from the ground by forcible means.
I equally detest the socialite gold-diggers /
publicity hounds who misuse RTI processes.
RTI is only the process of formalised Information
retrieval from bureaucratic labyrinths which would
otherwise not be accessible to the average joe or
student.
Just as a student ought not to crib that he is
required to "book" a reference journal from his
library, similarly a normal waiting period of 15 days
is not too bad for any formal process.
BTW: where have those 2 SPA boys disappeared off to?
Bad form boys! And what happened to Aruna and the
respectful emails I dutifully sent her?
Get used to RTI its here to stay, the DDA's and MoUDs
of this world will use every trick to stall and
distort it, but eventually their own Augean stables
will get washed out somewhat.
Insofar as students are concerned, I think
concessional photocopying charges could be considered
/ incorporated against a letter from their HOD.
You know my first RTI in 2003 simply asked the
Dy.Director of Education (South Zone) as how many
recognised Senior Secondary Schools there were in his
Division - and this got turned into some Big State
Secret. I wonder what the SPA boys asked, was it
something like - how many maternity hospitals are
there in Geeta Colony and how comparatively many are
there in Seelampur? Controversial stuff!
Sarbajit
--- Gita Dewan Verma <mpisgplanner@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> my point re RTI in this or discom case is only that
> purposes for which information is sought need to be
> distinguished. insufficient secondary data seriously
> hampers courses at school of planning. this is not
> so
> much about students right to info as about every
> one's
> responsibility to inform students. especially in
> view
> of the activist / glamorous / controversy
> connotations
> of use of RTI, i am acutely uncomfortable about
> accessing info for institutional academic purposes
> via
> RTI.
>
> --- sarbajit roy <sroy1947@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > Hi Prashant, Subhadeep,
> >
> > If the info u seek is normal uncontroversial
> > statistical stuff, simply go down to that office
> > again
> > and speak very politely to the peon(s) outside the
> > big
> > boss's office. He will direct you to the right
> > person
> > who will help you. Research the website of this
> > department first, very often a lot of valuable
> stuff
> > is tucked away behind deep links. Act
> knowledgeable
> > and brazen your way through. You will be surprised
> > how
> > often I extract information from even the most
> > notoriously secretive departments like this and I
> am
> > invariably asked "Sir which Department are you
> > from?"
> > for which a suitably vague and non-committal
> > response
> > is called for - like "Planning Department". Behave
> > like the Inspector General.
> >
> > Gita, Re: RTI and electricity data from Private
> > players etc, the new Central Act squarely
> addresses
> > this problem now. It's upto us responsible people
> to
> > now use this ACT with all its imperfections.
> >
> > BTW: Was out of town for a few days, how come
> > there's
> > nothing here about SC DMP remarks and SC Save
> Yamuna
> > Plan? Or do the have the clowns have to learn new
> > jokes?
> >
> > Sarbajit Roy
> >
> > --- Gita Dewan Verma <mpisgplanner@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Prashant, Subhadeep,
> > > Regardless of whether or not you feel up to
> > > exploring
> > > RTI procedures, please ask SPA authorities to
> > write
> > > to
> > > Delhi Govt and to concerned central ministries
> for
> > > separate procedure for access to information for
> > > purposes of studio-related work.
> > > You could also ask someone in faculty to take up
> > the
> > > impact on this of changing regimes (eg, students
> > > have
> > > been having trouble getting electricity
> > > infrastructure
> > > information since privatization). SPA could even
> > > provide inputs to authorities for prioritising
> > what
> > > needs to be available on their websites in
> spirit
> > of
> > > RTI w/o requiring proceeding by its letter.
> > > For the present studio-exercise, I suggest you
> > > request
> > > your HoD or Dean to call up the deptts that you
> > have
> > > had difficulties with and also give you a letter
> > of
> > > introduction for others that you will be
> visiting.
> > > all the best,
> > > Gita
> > >
> > >
> > > --- sarbajit roy <sroy1947@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dear Prashant, (and mpisg list)
> > > >
> > > > Sorry , I was out of delhi (away from the net)
> > and
> > > > cudnt reply earlier.
> > > >
> > > > Hi, with ref yr email below:-
> > > >
> > > > 1) It seems that DHS Karkadoom is processing
> > your
> > > > information as an application in Form A under
> > the
> > > > Delhi Right to Information Act 2002. YOU
> SHOULD
> > > > CONSIDER YOURSELF VERY LUCKY THAT THEY HAVE
> > > PROPERLY
> > > > ADVISED YOU TO APPLY IN FORM A.
> > > >
> > > > 2) The alternative would be to go to the High
> > > Court
> > > > or
> > > > some other court to get the information under
> a
> > > > court
> > > > order.
> > > >
> > > > 3) If the information sought is routine
> > > information
> > > > you will normally receive the information in
> 15
> > > > days.
> > > >
> > > > 4) If the information is tricky or
> controversial
> > > you
> > > > will not receive it all. Trust me ;-)
> > > >
> > > > 5) As per an office-order from the
> > > > Ministry/Department
> > > > of Administrative Reform,the fee of Rs. 25
> > (WHICH
> > > > YOU
> > > > ARE UNNECCESARILY CRIBBING ABOUT) entitles you
> > to
> > > > ask
> > > > 8 questions and 8 sub questions per question
> -->
> > > > This
> > > > effectively means 72 questions. However this
> is
> > > not
> > > > absolute and you can ask even 1000 questions
> for
> > > > Rs.25.
> > > >
> > > > 6) I hope that you have framed nice short and
> > > > specific
> > > > questions which can be answered in
> YES/NO/MAYBE
> > > > format.
> > > >
> > > > 7) If you dont want to pay Rs.5 per A4 sheet
> you
> > > can
> > > > adopt the following strategy.
> > > >
> > > > a) Ask to be allowed to inspect (this means to
> > > view
> > > > and take notes from) all the documents you
> > > require.
> > > > You can obtain the particular sheets of
> interest
> > > to
> > > > you by paying Rs.5 (this is a good device to
> > > getting
> > > > scammed by officers who will dump a whole load
> > of
> > > > garbage on you at Rs.5 per page)
> > > >
> > > > b) Frame the questions in a way that the
> answer
> > is
> > > > contained in the reply provided to you by the
> > > > Competent Authority. This is FREE.
> > > >
> > > > 8) I think you have been misinformed that
> > > > confidential
> > > > data cannot be given. Only a limited set of
> > > > information is excluded from purview of the
> ACT,
> > > and
> > > > these are specified in the ACT itself (section
> > > 6??)
> > > > and conform to the Constitutional exclusions
> > under
> > > > Article 19.
> > > >
> > > > 9) Make sure that that the information you
> seek
> > > > directly pertains to the Department of the
> > > Competent
>
=== message truncated ===
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com